Corona - Titan black SLI or Titan Z?

[Cyanhide]

Hi guys,

So currently i'm officially leaving Vray behind and turning all the way to Corona. For my needs Corona offers everything I need and the overall work flow is just better. I have a small company and Its just me doing the rendering, with limited recourses.

So its that time for me to make some expenses and i'm adding a new computer to the family.  Now I don't have the funds to buy a Quadro so i'm thinking of buying either

Two titan blacks in SLI
or 1 titan Z

Bear in mind this is purely for Corona, so what would be the difference? Apart from a thousand bucks lol.

This is my current build :
117072 ASUS GTX TITAN BLACK 6GB GDDR5, CLOCK RATE 941 ( times 2 )
115767 SAMSUNG 1000GB 2.5 INCH 840 EVO SERIES BASIC MZ-7TE1T0BW
113540 WESTERN DIGITAL 3000GB WD RED™ 64MB I-POWER WD30EFRX
117580 ASUS SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 DDR3 SOCKET 1150 INTEL® Z97
114947 NZXT PHANTOM 630 GUNMETAL
115535 CORSAIR 16GB (2X8GB) 1600MHZ ZILVER CMY16GX3M2A1600C9 ( times 2 - 64gb Ram in total )
117759 INTEL CORE I7 4790K 22NM 4 CORES 8 THREADS 4 € 4,4 GHZ 8M...
110369 ASUS XONAR ESSENCE STX PCI-E
114218 CORSAIR HYDRO SERIES™ H100i EXTREME PERFORMANCE LIQ...  ( this should be NZXT Kraken X60 )
113700 CORSAIR 1200W AX1200i PROFESSIONAL SERIES CP-9020008-EU
116250 MICROSOFT 64 UK WINDOWS 8.1 64BIT OEM


Kind Regards

[Captain Obvious]

Corona doesn't use the GPU at all, for anything. Buy whatever you need for viewports.

Edit: Also, go for a six-core. The extra cores will help when rendering in Corona.

[Cyanhide]

I only have a basic knowledge of computers,
Edit : Noted on the 6core.

Then what would I need?  save some money on the GFX card and spend it on a different CPU? Like an intel Xeon?

[Captain Obvious]

The Xeon and i7 are the exact same CPUs for the most part, the only difference is that you need a Xeon for a multi-CPU setup (which also requires a special motherboard with two (or more CPU sockets) and the Xeons are available with more cores. If you have a high budget, a dual Xeon system is pretty awesome. But it's also super-expensive. For the most part it's not worth the money.

Might I make a recommendation though? If you only have basic knowledge of computers, just buy one!

[Cyanhide]

I'd rather not buy a pre-made one, more expensive that way. And besides where's the fun in that.
I just wanted to know what I'd need to make a good render machine for corona.

Thanks for your help so far though.

[Jann]

i7-4930k for Cpu (the i7-4960x is just stupidly expensive, but they both OC about the same).
Asus P9X79-E WS, Rampage IV BE (lower end Asus boards might get too hot for 24/7 rendering under OC) or MSI X79A-GD45 PLUS and MSI X79A-GD65 (8D) (cheaper, and much cooler, but less expansion). Just be sure the boards come with latest Bios, or they might not boot with 4930k.
For 3ds Max Quadro is a waste of money, 760 for viewport is enough. So basically get anything you can afford after all the other parts.
Other parts look fine mostly. Do some research the coolers, I think they just release Kraken X61.

[steyin]

What's your budget? I occasionally check prices every month on my dream machine, and was able to configure a dual 10 core machine from Cyberpower for about $5,500. A dual 8 core, or hell, even a dual 6 core would be significantly cheaper of course from them.

As per the video card, if you don't plan on rendering with the GPU ever, especially since Corona doesn't use it, I'd think running a nice GTX (single or dual) would even be a viable option. I have a Quadro 4000 at home and its fine. The newer K series are at a decent price (if I had my way all video cards would be cheaper naturally), but I don't think they're necessary outside of GPU rendering anymore. If you're just looking for good performance with the VP and perhaps running some CAD software, Revit, etc, then I think a GTX 760/770 card combo would be good, and A LOT cheaper. I really don't feel the Titan cards are necessary.

Also, I highly recommend NEVER using a FirePro card in case that was considered. Used to use the Pro 5000 at work and it caused nothing but problems with MAX and sometimes AutoCAD. Had IT swap it out with a low end Quadro and no problems since.

[Cyanhide]

Aha, nice to hear about the kraken X61, i'm using the X60 on my main PC and this has been the best by ever.
Well, I started my build obviously wrong since I assumed Corona uses GPU. Now I have some money I can spare extra.

I'm just asking here, but does the price of  xeon dual core  type system outweigh the cost? Rendertime wise I mean.

EDIT : Budget would be somewhere along the 2500 - 3000 euro range.
Second Edit: Well if wanna use GPU I have my current build with a dual GTX780 system, but I really look for a new system purely designed to render in corona. I can do other work on this PC. ( if that makes sense lol )

Made a system according to help above
115860 INTEL CORE I7 4930K 22NM 3.4 12MB LGA 2011
111932 ASUS SABERTOOTH X79 TUF SOCKET 2011 ATX INTEL® X79
115535 CORSAIR 16GB (2X8GB) 1600MHZ ZILVER CMY16GX3M2A1600C9  ( times 2 )
115767 SAMSUNG 1000GB 2.5 INCH 840 EVO SERIES BASIC MZ-7TE1T0BW
113700 CORSAIR 1200W AX1200i PROFESSIONAL SERIES CP-9020008-EU
114218 CORSAIR HYDRO SERIES™ H100i EXTREME PERFORMANCE LIQ...  ( change to kraken x60 or 61)
116027 WESTERN DIGITAL 4000GB WD GREEN™ 64MB I-POWER WD40E...
117883 ASUS STRIKER-GTX760-P-4GD5 4GB GDDR5, CLOCK RATE 1085
114947 NZXT PHANTOM 630 GUNMETAL

And I end up with a workstation at 2600 euro, so not bad.

[andreupuig]

I made the same configuration on january for about 2000€ with a gtx 770.

First add an SSD just for programs, not for data, a Samsung 840, yes, but not 1tb, just 240gb is fine and it is quite affordable.
Corsair AX1200i is way too much. Grab a 850w Corsair PSU, even on OC you will not need 1200w. Make sure the PSU is 80plus certified.
I tend not to use a single huge hard disk for the data, I prefer RAID configuration, less space, but more safe.

I overclocked the 4930k @4.4ghz with the same motherboard and cpu cooler,but I'm sure I can squeeze something more with a little bit of optimization.

I would wait till september when new LGA-2011-3 (Haswell-E) CPUs will be released, like the 5930k.

[Juraj]

So much bro-science in this thread.

1)"Xeons not worth the money". Not true, people just regurgitate common nonsense. If you do your math correctly and know about hardware bit deeper, you will understand it will come to same. Without having multiple machines. Of course, up-front investment is larger, but overall performance for value
will be close to identical.
2)"Suggestions of outlier boards (Sabertooth/ROG/WS). Currently, any LG2011 boards support almost identical stability under over-clock. Even the cheapest old "Vanilla"grandpa P9X79. The overclockability is much more down
to how lucky you are with your Ivy-bridge chip sample. You can run all of them on 4.4GHz if you wish and don't care about voltage (for some you will need to go over 1.4+ and will sacrifice stability and longetivity, but this doesn't affect the board you choose !!).
You need ROG if you need advanced feature set for overclocking ,and by 99perc. chance you don't. Sabretooth is hardproofed pseudo-army gimmick that will give you longer warranty. WS is E-ATX size Vanilla P9X79 with possibility of 4 GPUS. If you don't plan on 4GPUS (for Corona ?) then you don't need WS board. Buy regular old vanilla P9X79 and update bios, or buy newer Deluxe X79 (only "X79" not P9X79).
3)"Close-looped water cooling system". Not that amazing choice. Water cooling=/= Water cooling. Unless you plan to cool few (2 to 4) GPUs, you don't need water cooling in your PC which is the only benefit of it. Close looped systems that connect only your CPU to
outside fans like Corsair Hydro i100/i80/etc... Kraken XTZ/etc...are mediocre (Kraken) to trash (Corsair). The cooling capacity is same level as top air cooler like Noctua NH-D14/15 but it's louder (cheap pump, cheap fans you have to position at top of case) and more complicated. There is zero reason to go this route for pure CPU based workstation.
4)Save your money and don't buy 1TB SSD to your workstation. 256 or even 512 is more than you will need and store the rest on network. If you already plan to spend so much money, the PRO is better choice the EVO, it's small price difference only.
5)You don't need 1200W PSU ! If you plan to use GTX760 and overlocked i7 4930k than even 600W will be more than enough. If you want to be "safe" for future, ok, buy 720-750W but know it's overkill. Silent, passive, platinum grade are better atributes to look for.


You already have PC with dual780 ? What's the problem with that for Corona ? If you need purely more performance than get budget of 5000 euros and buy dual-xeon. But you don't seem to need a new workstation. Maybe a simple node would make you happy.

Save your money, think more and do more research.

[Cyanhide]

So much bro-science in this thread.
.....
You already have PC with dual780 ? What's the problem with that for Corona ? If you need purely more performance than get budget of 5000 euros and buy dual-xeon. But you don't seem to need a new workstation. Maybe a simple node would make you happy.

Save your money, think more and do more research.

Ty for the advice, Yes I might be happy with a node, not sure. Will research hehe.
although since Corona doesn't support GPU I dont understand why you would say that because I have dual 780 that would suffice for corona?
My current set up is

Asus crosshair V forumula
Vishera bulldozer ( 8core )
20 gb ram
GTX780 SLI
750 PSU
Kraken X60
512 SSD drive
180 SSD drive.

But I want to render faster. Lots faster without having to rely on render services.

Thanks all for the feedback a lot :)

[Juraj]

Well, if you had money for double 780, I figured out had atleast one hexacore i7.

I was wrong though :- ) And you have very slow AMD cpu so. But why do you need second PC ? Why not just swap motheboard + CPU ?
Keep you dual 780 for gaming and profit ;- )

I presume you have the highest bulldozer, i.e FX8350 ? If so it has roughly 60perc. overall performance compared to i7 4930k, so while switching to top i7,
you would render faster, but not crazy much more.

Relevant cinebench (11.5) scores (non-overclocked):
FX-3850=7
i7 4930k=10.6
i7 4930k at 4,4Ghz=13

So if you keep your i7 clocked pretty hight, you would be able to render at roughly twice the speed compared to your current setup.

For example my Xeon nodes:
2x2680v2 at 3.1Ghz(turbo)=28

You can buy Asus Z9PE-D8 + 2x Xeon 2667v2/2680v2/etc.. for about 3400 euros. [or buy much cheaper ES versions but...that's risk]
This would give you pretty ultimate machine.

[Cyanhide]

Well, what can I say, I was young and naive.

Well, 3400 euros isn't the end of the world, right now I'm looking at the AMD Opteron quad setup. This gives a total of 64 cores, just food for thought.
I know intel is better, but like you said, research.

One thing's for sure, this might take a while and a lot more forums to find out what's a good price/speed setup :)

And how insane it sounds, i'd rather not OC. Call me badluck brian lol.

[Juraj]

If you don't like overclocking, the Xeons are even better for you, as they don't give you that choice of luxury :- ).

Anyway, Opterons are out. They haven't been updated for very long time, and AMD had withdrawn from the high-end market since, this includes server platform.
If you mean the last high-performance architecture they had, the 6xxx range, than 64 cores equalled up to 30 in Cinebench score. Similar to Xeon range but with following drawbacks:

4xCPUs draws 4x140W. Compare it to 2xXeons at 115-130W, that's twice power.
They require server based OS system to run. Not a big problem, but inconvenience for workstation.
The architecture isn't so universal as the Xeon range. Even though syntentic tests shows potency, this didn't prove in practice with many renderers. Vray for particular, had big trouble feeding the cores and recorded subpar performance. You
can search Vlado's answer to this on Chaos forum. Advice:Stay away.
Extremely poor single-threaded performance. We're talking, half of that per core to SandyBridge architecture in Intel, at clock up to 2.7Ghz. That's absolutely useless for any workstation task. It's like buying Celeron.

tl,dl: It looks nice on first sight, but if something looks too good to be true, that it probably isn't. Opteron range isn't.
You already bought the worst AMD ( I really like the company...but, you basically have to ignore their cpu range recent years) cpu out there, don't repeat the mistake.

[Cyanhide]

Thank you Again, I came to the same conclusion, almost every post/topic/thread I find regard an opteron build is dated 2012. A lot has happened since then.
I might just suck it up and go for dual Xeon, no need to re-invent the wheel.

Anyways your detailed posts where appreciated :).

[Juraj]

Since you want "much more" rendering power, than current hexacores don't cut it. But if you would find the xeons to be over budget,
you can also wait until mid September, where Haswell-E i7 arrive. But, only the highest model 5960X is going to be Octacore @ 3.0Ghz for 999 euros.
Plus 250 euros for new motheboard (new X99) and possibly for the sake of novelty DDR4, but that will have its heavy price (for very little benefit in CGI). But this solution would bring you roughly 30perc. more performance
of i7 4930k. i7 5930k is even bigger dissapoitment, it's not even worth waiting for, unless you are extreme overclocker/game enthousiast, and you really want DDR4 memory.

But since you were looking for super-overpriced monstrosity like TitanZ, then you probably can afford Xeons and should :- )

[Cyanhide]

As of now i'm at 3529€
But that doesn't give me dual xenon tho
NTEL XEON® E5-2697 V2 22NM 2.7GHZ 30MB LGA 2011 12 CORES 24 THREADS ( this one is currently ranked 1 )
ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS
CORSAIR 16GB (2X8GB) 1600MHZ CMP16GX3M4X1600C7 ZWART (x2 )
NOCTUA NH-U14S
CORSAIR 650W RM650 RM SERIES CP-9020054-EU
SAMSUNG 250GB 2.5 INCH 840 EVO SERIES BASIC MZ-7TE250BW (2)

Now, i'l be spending my whole day figuring out which would be more interesting for me, go for a cheaper Xeon and buy 2, or stick with this monster and add one over time. ( if that's even possible )
Honestly, this is proving to be harder then I thought lol.

but finding different xeons is not easy as well, not a lot of retail sellers who sell them, and I don't want to buy this from internet.

[Juraj]

You don't need the single top CPU, not if it will give you mere 5perc. overall performance in the end lol, but for double the price.

That's why I suggested 2667/2680 or 2687 if you want to spend bit more. But not 2697 lol.

Also, stop counting the cores. It's not important. The math goes like this: Total amount of Cores (exclude HT), multiplied by Turbo frequency for all the cores. =Total multithreaded performance.
But then again, you also need strong preference for less but higher clocked cores, so you have high single-threaded performance for workstation tasks.

Regarding the other component, are you trying to build the full computer or are you upgrading ?
Because you can keep your previous PSU (750W) and use single 780 GTX for example. It's fine. Two xeons only take 300W.

Adding single Xeon and adding one later is not good option. It just won't work well, if at all with Z9PE-D8 board. Also, memory slots are allocated per CPUs, so to saturate quad-channel, you need 8 dimm sticks.
Because of value/price, it's efficient to go for 8x8GB= 64GB total. You can keep corsair, just make sure it's low-profile.

Noctua U-series is excellent choice, I have them on xeons too. I only run 2 fans, but you can keep 3 fans (1 in middle for two U14S).

Regarding Xeon availability in Europe, yep, that's tough. I was only lucky to get them from Germany, and had to wait about week. Make sure to get the correct street price, don't overpay.

[Cyanhide]

I see I see, well I looked for those you mentioned first, but they don't sell em, that why I took the other one.
I'm going for a full new build, I'l keep this computer for games and some small render stuff.

Aha, about the PSU I heard a lot of different answers, some say you need 1200 watt, other 750 watt.
The 8x8 RAM configuration is interesting, this will save me a euro or two. As long as I stay at 1600MHZ ( + low profile ) it should be good.
About the coolers, I heard great things about them, and they are fairly cheap.

These are the only 2 xeons they sell aswell.

XEON® E5-2630 V2 22NM 2.60GHZ 15MB LGA 2011 6 CORES... 600euros
XEON® E5-2620 V2 22NM 2.10GHZ 15MB LGA 2011 6 CORES...  440euros

Remind me if your ever in the neighborhood of Belgium to buy you a drink lol.

[Juraj]

Well, I personally run 1000W Goldflower, because two xeons and small GPU only take up to 450+/-W, so it runs completely passive. I am noise-freak.
Each Xeon (with exception of high clock/turbo WS models) are  115W (or bit more if they turbo all cores), GTX780 is 250W under full load, the rest is meaningless, count 50W for convenience.
So Dual-Xeon with active-PSU and single 780 would draw 230+250+50=530W in average, so if you like proofing, 650W, or possibility of second GPU, you can go up to 1000W. Bot not 1200W :- )

Yes, you need 1600Mhz. Even though Asus officially states 1866 support, I've seen people struggle to get it, mine even had problems with 1600 heh....on latest bios.

Bellow 2660 are not worth considering. They are too low clocked to be worth the overal PC cost. 2660v2/2670v2 are the low budget option (should be able to get street price of around 1200-1400Euros for each),
2667v2/2680v2 are middle ground (1500-1600) euros for each, and workstation 2687WS is highest you should go, it's quite expensive with only little benefit from single-thread performance.
Don't really consider the rest.

It's worth contacting custom builders, they have access to direct sellers (B2B, not consumer), and can ask around which wholesale sellers can order it.

The total cost for full workstation, without GPU(you already have one spare), with middle choice (2667 in preference for singlethread/2680in preference for multithread), with high-end components (platinum 1000W PSU Goldflower/Seasonic, Fractal XL2, Noiseblocker 140mm case fans) should not exceed 5000 euros in total cost with VAT. If you are direct VAT payer, than -20perc. so 4000 euros.

[Cyanhide]

I see I see,
Well your 5000 euro range is pretty accurate, you really cant get anything descent beneath the 5k mark. VAT is good for me, I get it back via taxes, so yeah. But I'm gonna ask my dealer if they can buy them directly. Might cost some extra.

Guess it won't be this month, still thank you.

[Juraj]

No problem, didn't want spam this thread :- D (feel free to email me later if you want assistance).

If you can wait until mid-September, Haswell-EP like will arrive. i7 5930k will be still hexacore sadly (so roughly 10perc.~ performance upgrade just due to architecture), 5960X will be Octactore, and v3 Xeon range will come too.
All of them will support DDR4 memory and will come with slightly higher cache. It won't be rather dramatic improvement again but just another food for thought/alternative.

[orsobruno]

Hi everyone! i notice this conversation while i'm trying to understand if the 2680v2 coul be a better choice over the 2695vs... i have find a site wich sells the two with a difference of 400€, the 2680v2 at 1600€ and the 2695v2 at 2000€, i'm plannig to buy one of them becouse i could not wait till the xeon v3 coming out in september, but i can't figure out wich one could be the better choice for me...i mean, 800€ are an important difference in the total cost of the workstation, and i'm trying to justificate them with the performance gain...but will the 2695v2 overtake the 2680v2? becouse i see that the 2680v2 is a 10 cores processor, while the 2695v2 have 12 cores, if i do the math i have 12x3.2=38.4 GHz and 10x3.6=36 GHz...

i would like to understand if this is a right count, or it means nothing in render time...becouse i really don't know if it could be better to have more core but lower clocked, or vice versa....

Sorry for the intrusion in you conversation! I hope you could give me a better opinion than the benchmark page of cinebench :S

edit:

Of course I'm planning to buy two of them...

[Juraj]

Numerobis had posted on CGArchitect http://forums.cgarchitect.com/76503-render-node-configuration-light-new-v-ray-licensing-scheme.html this chart:



Regarding rendering performance, I do not think it's personally worth to go for higher cored models than 2680v2, because the additional performance increase is negligible, even if price difference would be small (but it isn't).
If additional budget is present, it's possible to rather think of 2687v2 WS, because of its high native/turbo clock, but again, it comes at price with only benefit for single-threaded tasks, rendering performance would again be close to identical.

Your overall math is correct, the ratio between  'number of cores/frequency' only affects single threaded tasks, which benefit purely from higher clock, while overall multi-threaded performance can be derived by multiplying the cores by frequency.
In the latter regard, all the higher end Xeons are very close to each other.

[orsobruno]

Thank you very much Juraj!! With that in mind i can now make the right choice and go for the 2680 V2...and with the money that i save by taking the cheaper one, i can think about the new i7-5960x in september :)

Thank you again for you rapid answer!

[Juraj]

Thank you very much Juraj!! With that in mind i can now make the right choice and go for the 2680 V2...and with the money that i save by taking the cheaper one, i can think about the new i7-5960x in september :)

Thank you again for you rapid answer!

That's the spirit !! :- ) I am looking towards one too, can't wait haha. DDR4 + GTX880. I wonder how it's going to overclock (seeing as the base clock is only 3GHz)