Author Topic: Why is Corona not compatible with the most important additions that the designer  (Read 3404 times)

2022-03-22, 01:09:31

MARDUK

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Hello guys

Unfortunately I'm going to reveal a secret that might be considered treason but I have to hahaha
I started looking for a display engine that differs from Corona, and the reason is that Corona is not compatible with many of the additions that any designer needs and wants to develop his work.
Such as :
X-Particles - INSYDIUM LTD
FumeFX
TurbulenceFD

Almost all other rendering engines are compatible with it
And this I see as a big flaw in Corona, and I say it frankly, I have no better than Corona, but I will have to work with another engine in order to work on developing myself and take advantage of these advantages

If the Corona team is interested in these features, we want to know



2022-03-22, 16:32:22
Reply #1

BigAl3D

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I agree it would be great if Corona was compatible with all the big plugins, but a couple of things come to mind. First off, even though we are paying for it, Corona is still not fully mature in some areas. So that would take priority over plugins. Second, Corona may not be targeting the markets where you would need crazy particles, smoke and fire effects. Many Corona users are in the archvis sector, product design or other main stream advertising.

Just some thoughts.

2022-03-22, 19:21:54
Reply #2

maru

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First of all, we have Phoenix. :)

Secondly, FumeFX stopped supporting Corona at some point, not the other way around: https://support.corona-renderer.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403205647889

And lastly, even considering the above, we are NOT ignoring requests for supporting additional plugins. If you would like to have some plugins supported, please keep posting, let us know that this is really wanted.

Edit: we also have TyFlow support in Corona 8 (for 3ds Max).
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us

2022-03-22, 21:02:01
Reply #3

ficdogg

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None of those are supported in C4D.
If x-particles were supported I'm sure we would see an uptick in usage. Right now corona has no support for particles in Cinema 4D.

2022-03-22, 21:08:43
Reply #4

jojorender

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Hi maru,
reminding us here that 3ds has better corona support than c4d hurts more than it does good… ;-)
I’m with BigAl3D, that many other important things need fixing “first”. Vertex motion blur comes to mind.
“fixing remaining motion bur issues” is dying a slow death on the trello board.

Anyways, I’m more interested to get some clarification on your metric for feature interest or bug fixing urgency.
“please keep posting, let us know that this is really wanted”.
What’s a general guideline of time between reposting on feature request or bug reports, without being considered spam and banned from the forum? There have been maaaany postings, over a loooong time about particle support in c4d. It didn't help....

Some bug reports get a ID assigned but never fixed. Post at every daily or give you guys some room to breathe?
if I don’t constantly repost this doesn’t mean I lost interest in the feature or don’t care about the bug fix anymore… you get the point.
Is “+1"ing every feature request necessary to be considered “a really wanted feature”?
Any advice?
How about a "feature" or "bug fix" poll from your end to see where user interest is?



2022-03-22, 21:36:16
Reply #5

MARDUK

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I agree it would be great if Corona was compatible with all the big plugins, but a couple of things come to mind. First off, even though we are paying for it, Corona is still not fully mature in some areas. So that would take priority over plugins. Second, Corona may not be targeting the markets where you would need crazy particles, smoke and fire effects. Many Corona users are in the archvis sector, product design or other main stream advertising.

Just some thoughts.

Thank you for your reply, you are the right
But the 3D world is open as you know, and every professional designer must connect several programs to improve his work
To make Corona for certain regions only, this is a huge loss for such a powerful engine
How do I work on the animation and Corona provides me with that but it's not compatible with many of the powerful plugins in the field?
How to make car smoke and fire volcano in a free and flexible way?
This is a big problem and a big shortage

2022-03-22, 21:42:13
Reply #6

MARDUK

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First of all, we have Phoenix. :)

Secondly, FumeFX stopped supporting Corona at some point, not the other way around: https://support.corona-renderer.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403205647889

And lastly, even considering the above, we are NOT ignoring requests for supporting additional plugins. If you would like to have some plugins supported, please keep posting, let us know that this is really wanted.

Edit: we also have TyFlow support in Corona 8 (for 3ds Max).

Thanks for your reply and interest
I know you are a great and hardworking team and we are tired of Corona. This is a great success
I know you understand the designers' desire to deal with important and popular add-ons
Therefore, I am writing here for clarification only
There are agreements, contracts and other things, and I understand all of that
Really hope
But as far as I know, Phoenix fd does not support Cinema 4D
« Last Edit: 2022-03-22, 21:47:10 by MARDUK »

2022-03-22, 23:47:55
Reply #7

TomG

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For prioritization, we do give priority to "things everyone will have" - when it comes to paid third party plugins, clearly only a subset of users (and usually a fairly small subset) will have those. So while adding support for them is nice to do and is under consideration (particles rendering support is on the roadmap for consideration already, https://trello.com/c/LmDJ7juK/107-particles-rendering-support, as an example), we do know that it would benefit a smaller number of users than, say, adding Scatter, or Cosmos, or Decals, or Slicer, or new tone mapping, which all benefit "everyone" since every user will have access to them.

In an ideal world we could do "all of the above", but with a finite team, we have to pick what to work on. Other factors can come in, like FumeFX dropping support for Corona - that is, there is another set of developers involved in order for things to happen (in some cases, not in all). And of course prioritization of what to work on next is as much an art as a science, we'll keep doing our best to balance all the many factors that go into each decision - and do please keep telling us which features are important to you. Every request is noted, of course there's no guarantee that every request can be done, or any guarantee of a time frame, that's where the art and juggling of various issues of priorities comes in, but every request is heard.

Thanks!

Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2022-03-23, 02:27:56
Reply #8

jojorender

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This made my day...
"I know you are a great and hardworking team and we are tired of Corona. This is a great success"

I don't know what it means, but I know it's a great compliment! All treason is forgiven...
This should make it into the "Corona - best quotes 2022" list!

2022-03-23, 08:37:42
Reply #9

davetwo

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For prioritization, we do give priority to "things everyone will have" - when it comes to paid third party plugins, clearly only a subset of users (and usually a fairly small subset) will have those. So while adding support for them is nice to do and is under consideration (particles rendering support is on the roadmap for consideration already, https://trello.com/c/LmDJ7juK/107-particles-rendering-support, as an example), we do know that it would benefit a smaller number of users than, say, adding Scatter, or Cosmos, or Decals, or Slicer, or new tone mapping, which all benefit "everyone" since every user will have access to them.

Thanks!

I think pretty much everyone agrees that this is a good approach. I'm very happy with the new tools in v8 and can imagine using them on most projects. Unlike particle sims (nice tho they would be). In everyday use, things like the clunky Chaos licencing server are much more likely to give me headaches  ;)

2022-03-23, 13:15:52
Reply #10

jojorender

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While having these new toys like scatter, cosmos, etc might be nice, it feels like they take priority over things that we are waiting for to be implemented/ fixed for a long time.
Sorry to bring up vertex motion blur again, but I truly believe that this would elevate the quality of most work more than having another Barcelona chair from the cosmos library. 
Watching these tack sharp leaves, people, water, birds etc moving in an animation (and stills) is just painful.
Some might be screaming now “do it in post”, but where are we on motion vector masks these days? Are they working on a deformed mesh now? I really don’t know.
Yes, we have a ok but not great, working object MB but then it falls short.
As BigAl3D called it “Corona is still not fully mature in some areas”

What I’m trying to get at, there might be a bit of a disconnect between the technical side (coders) and the “creative” side (users). It might not be obvious to a coder how important something as subtle as a slight motion blur on leaves really is.
This is just an example that “importance” might be valued differently depending what side you’re on.

2022-03-23, 18:49:33
Reply #11

MARDUK

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For prioritization, we do give priority to "things everyone will have" - when it comes to paid third party plugins, clearly only a subset of users (and usually a fairly small subset) will have those. So while adding support for them is nice to do and is under consideration (particles rendering support is on the roadmap for consideration already, https://trello.com/c/LmDJ7juK/107-particles-rendering-support, as an example), we do know that it would benefit a smaller number of users than, say, adding Scatter, or Cosmos, or Decals, or Slicer, or new tone mapping, which all benefit "everyone" since every user will have access to them.

In an ideal world we could do "all of the above", but with a finite team, we have to pick what to work on. Other factors can come in, like FumeFX dropping support for Corona - that is, there is another set of developers involved in order for things to happen (in some cases, not in all). And of course prioritization of what to work on next is as much an art as a science, we'll keep doing our best to balance all the many factors that go into each decision - and do please keep telling us which features are important to you. Every request is noted, of course there's no guarantee that every request can be done, or any guarantee of a time frame, that's where the art and juggling of various issues of priorities comes in, but every request is heard.

Thanks!


Thank you for your reply, your words are logical and understandable
But the small group may be studios, and as you know, with the development of computers, the designer becomes more independent and faster to produce works. I do not rule out at all, and soon, that the films will be directed by designers without the need for a producer and special companies, and all these groups are almost in fact stealing the efforts of the designers, all that the film was made with is an effort. From the designers, not the effort of a producer or others, and the money goes to them and not to the designers
You know, for example, programs like Houdini that not every designer can handle and are often directed to the cinema.
But it brings a lot of revenue to its owners
Cinema 4D is actually no less than Houdini, it can do everything, especially with paid add-ons, and it is in cinema and advertising as well.
And Corona deals with Cinema 4D, so why not take advantage of this and this is in the interest of Corona above all?

2022-03-23, 18:53:00
Reply #12

MARDUK

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This made my day...
"I know you are a great and hardworking team and we are tired of Corona. This is a great success"

I don't know what it means, but I know it's a great compliment! All treason is forgiven...
This should make it into the "Corona - best quotes 2022" list!

Sorry, my English is not good
But there is no compliment
If I saw that Corona was not good, I would not write here... and there are many alternatives, I would silently move to it
On the contrary, I want Corona to be the best rendering engine, frankly and honestly
Corona has a great advantage over me

2022-03-23, 19:28:33
Reply #13

MARDUK

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For prioritization, we do give priority to "things everyone will have" - when it comes to paid third party plugins, clearly only a subset of users (and usually a fairly small subset) will have those. So while adding support for them is nice to do and is under consideration (particles rendering support is on the roadmap for consideration already, https://trello.com/c/LmDJ7juK/107-particles-rendering-support, as an example), we do know that it would benefit a smaller number of users than, say, adding Scatter, or Cosmos, or Decals, or Slicer, or new tone mapping, which all benefit "everyone" since every user will have access to them.

In an ideal world we could do "all of the above", but with a finite team, we have to pick what to work on. Other factors can come in, like FumeFX dropping support for Corona - that is, there is another set of developers involved in order for things to happen (in some cases, not in all). And of course prioritization of what to work on next is as much an art as a science, we'll keep doing our best to balance all the many factors that go into each decision - and do please keep telling us which features are important to you. Every request is noted, of course there's no guarantee that every request can be done, or any guarantee of a time frame, that's where the art and juggling of various issues of priorities comes in, but every request is heard.

Thanks!


Thank you for your reply, your words are logical and understandable
But the small group may be studios, and as you know, with the development of computers, the designer becomes more independent and faster to produce works. I do not rule out at all, and soon, that the films will be directed by designers without the need for a producer and special companies, and all these groups are almost in fact stealing the efforts of the designers, all that the film was made with is an effort. From the designers, not the effort of a producer or others, and the money goes to them and not to the designers
You know, for example, programs like Houdini that not every designer can handle and are often directed to the cinema.
But it brings a lot of revenue to its owners
Cinema 4D is actually no less than Houdini, it can do everything, especially with paid add-ons, and it is in cinema and advertising as well.
And Corona deals with Cinema 4D, so why not take advantage of this and this is in the interest of Corona above all?

The few are doing a great job
It's the most professional
Animation is not easy and visual effects
Still images all rendering engines can do this, and it's up to the designer's preference and experience
Zbrash was recently acquired by Cinema 4D, and this is a plus
It is very powerful with effects and integrates with Adobe programs like After Effects
I know most designers and market go for Max, but it is known why because it is old and has everything in terms of add-ons and other things.
But it is, in my opinion, a very cumbersome program with big problems. I can describe him as an old man on the verge of death
Cinema 4D has produced many films, especially animations
Wouldn't it be an advantage for Corona if the Renderer got this movie, and it would be a hit movie with a huge box office?
I know you are an informed and intelligent team who knows their future and has a vision for the market
But the small group does the big things. It is good to pay attention to this philosophy
Yes, and I want to say that Corona must definitely be inserted into Houdini!
I don't know if you know how AMD rose and beat Intel
Threadripper is the one who did it
Threadripper is for designers, not gamers!
In my opinion, the small group is more important than the large group because they are the ones doing the marketing for you
Small category does the marketing for you
It is directed to cinema and cinema is directed to hundreds of millions of people
And as a designer, I will research how the effects of this scene were made and with which rendering engine
You don't pay a single dollar for this free marketing!
« Last Edit: 2022-03-23, 19:56:10 by MARDUK »

2022-03-24, 11:09:15
Reply #14

John_Do

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Hi maru,
reminding us here that 3ds has better corona support than c4d hurts more than it does good… ;-)
I’m with BigAl3D, that many other important things need fixing “first”. Vertex motion blur comes to mind.
“fixing remaining motion bur issues” is dying a slow death on the trello board.

Anyways, I’m more interested to get some clarification on your metric for feature interest or bug fixing urgency.
“please keep posting, let us know that this is really wanted”.
What’s a general guideline of time between reposting on feature request or bug reports, without being considered spam and banned from the forum? There have been maaaany postings, over a loooong time about particle support in c4d. It didn't help....

Some bug reports get a ID assigned but never fixed. Post at every daily or give you guys some room to breathe?
if I don’t constantly repost this doesn’t mean I lost interest in the feature or don’t care about the bug fix anymore… you get the point.
Is “+1"ing every feature request necessary to be considered “a really wanted feature”?
Any advice?
How about a "feature" or "bug fix" poll from your end to see where user interest is?

+1

jojorender has a point here. Althought Corona is nicely integrated into C4D and delivers nice result, I have the feeling that it could greatly benefit from some LONG overdue bugs fixes.
Motion blur is one of them, with a fix planned on the Trello board for more than 2 years. That's (almost) FOUR Corona versions where a fix could have happened.

So even though I'm glad that the plugin is developed in parallel of the original 3ds max version, and that we don't have to wait 6 months to get the latest features like the big brother V-Ray, I would glady exchange a month or two of delay to see these long standing bugs fixed. Cause no one can do it for you, and using Corona sometimes eight hours a day, it's f****** annoying to encounter these bugs again and again, resorting on crappy workaround to get the job done ( maxing out the RAM with real instances to get MB to work anyone ? ).
Hell, I already have often difficult clients to handles which are enough to made my days painful, I don't want to fight with my tools on top of that.

I can't speak on the original subject of plugins support, I avoid relying on external plugins as much as possible precisely for this reason, even if I would like to be proven wrong. But I'm surprised that X-Particles isn't supported as it's the best selling plugin on Cinema.

I know that software development is hard and many variables comes into play ( no pun intended ), but providing a bug-free experience on core features should be one of the top priority IMHO.

Few more bugs :

- slow IR against 3ds Max version ( as in not as smooth / fluid, haven't compared the sampling speed )
- even slower IR in viewport mode ( lag even more )
- incomplete support for Layer Shader ( bump channel )
- incomplete support for Projector Shader ( annoying since it's the only way to alter mapping per bitmap)
- UVW randomizer stochastic tiling not working with Corona Bitmap
- duplicated children node tree when importing some materials in the Nodal Editor ( materials from library or from another scene )
- Textured Area Lights ( more a feature request but it already exists in the 3ds max version)

Cheers,