Author Topic: Tonemapping playground!  (Read 8862 times)

2022-03-12, 12:54:21

Aram Avetisyan

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The new programmable, stackable and playable tonemapping is here with Corona Renderer 8 RC1!

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QJ_iXVzRHSdX2vUl6Z7cCHWhtQyoORnw

Apply the operators, tweak the settings, move them up and down to change the order (applied from top to bottom), try the new presets and also create and share yours!


Scene from Evermotion
« Last Edit: 2022-03-14, 14:20:20 by maru »
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2022-04-06, 17:37:27
Reply #1

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

What should be the process and order for the modifiers now? LUT? ACES OT? Ecc.

Thanks in advance and you did a great job guys!

Dionysios -

2022-04-06, 17:56:25
Reply #2

maru

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

What should be the process and order for the modifiers now? LUT? ACES OT? Ecc.

Thanks in advance and you did a great job guys!

Dionysios -

We're glad that you are enjoying the new features!

As to your questions:

Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes / other operators - I don't think there is ever "need" to use any of them. :) They are all different, and you can use them if you wish, or if you find them useful in getting the desired look in your images.

Order of operators - here we are also giving the users complete freedom. One thing to remember is that the operators are applied in the order from top to bottom. I would personally strongly encourage experimenting, because even if something is not "technically correct", it can still produce good-looking results. It's similar as with using the Corona Physical Material with the Complex IOR option vs using simple controls with just the base color and edge color. Or using the Corona Physical Material vs using the Legacy Material to produce some un-physical results.
I am sure there will be some users with more puristic approach, or who are used to following strict workflows to produce technically correct results in terms of color management, etc. This is fine too, and as far as I know, in such cases it makes sense to only use the exposure operator, and then apply the ACES OT operator.


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2022-04-06, 18:21:43
Reply #3

maru

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By the way, this thread is awfully empty! Here are some more examples of the new ACES OT operator in action:

1) No operator at all vs ACES OT - the results speak for themselves ;) - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/PUZsqZ

2) ACES OT vs Reinhard Highlight Compression - while these two operators have some things in common, note especially how the highly saturated materials on the spheres react to strong highlights - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/e6y3Zd

3) ACES OT vs no operator at all - again, check out the highlights compression and desaturation - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/tZJdk2

4) An experiment: the same scene, using the ACES OT operator in both cases - left is using the ACEScg color space, right is using the Wide RGB color space (the default in Corona) - as you can see the differences are negligible. The mostly visible difference here is in the green refractive sphere and in the overall saturation of the SSS object. There are also some minor differences because of the UHD Cache recalculation - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/8JStH0

5) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/SHKcLV

6) ACES OT vs Reinhard highlight compression - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/muavrb

7) Both images are using the ACES OT operator. One is rendered with the Wide RGB color space, the other one in ACEScg color space - take a look at the blue car - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/SPDmwX

8) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/TyAiwJ

9) Both images are using the ACES OT operator. One is rendered with the Wide RGB color space, the other one in ACEScg color space - take a look at the blue car - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/V9x2sv

10) ACES OT vs Reinhard highlight compression - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/oD7bzE

11) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/WsfQg7

*By the way, the internal color space can be changed in the Development / Experimental Stuff rollout, and you need to re-render to make it work - https://support.corona-renderer.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402367677713

*Note that both the ACES OT operator and switching between different internal color spaces will make the biggest differences in cases where some kind of color blending occurs (especially in case of highly saturated colors) such as multiplication or division. This happens, for example, when: mixing lights (two spotlights with different colors mix), using refractive materials with colored absorption, using SSS, using the Corona Physical Mtl with colored Clearcoat.



Sorry for the spam! :)
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2022-04-06, 19:15:06
Reply #4

Ondra

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

While it currently seems that ACES OT is the "make it look nice" tool, I assume some people will still want to create their own custom tone mapping stacks to differentiate their images from everyone else using the default setting ;)
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2022-04-06, 19:53:09
Reply #5

romullus

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Why is aces almost always so contrasty? I didn't have a chance to test Corona's implementation yet, but judging from examples here and also what i see in other apps, it's always the same crushed shadows and overly compressed highlights. Maybe it's my uncalibrated monitor, i don't know, but usually when i look at nice images in the gallery, or artwork in general, i don't see much issues with colours or contrast, so i guess my monitor is not very far off and it's something with aces itself that i don't like it. I guess i'm just not a fan of that overly punchy look.
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2022-04-06, 20:13:24
Reply #6

maru

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Why is aces almost always so contrasty? I didn't have a chance to test Corona's implementation yet, but judging from examples here and also what i see in other apps, it's always the same crushed shadows and overly compressed highlights. Maybe it's my uncalibrated monitor, i don't know, but usually when i look at nice images in the gallery, or artwork in general, i don't see much issues with colours or contrast, so i guess my monitor is not very far off and it's something with aces itself that i don't like it. I guess i'm just not a fan of that overly punchy look.

I think this is very, very scene-dependent. My examples are highly contrasty even with no ACES OT operator. When it's added, they become even more contrasty. In a different scene (maybe exterior? something with soft, diffuse light?) it might look very different.
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2022-04-06, 20:19:22
Reply #7

romullus

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I understand that, but if it's one button solution, then it means that in 50% of cases it might be unusable.
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2022-04-06, 20:23:05
Reply #8

maru

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Some more experiments. Light with negative color values in different color spaces.

Bonus:

ACES OT vs no operators - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/CgEh27

ACES OT Wide RGB vs ACES OT ACEScg - hair color changes :D - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/a64c75
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2022-04-06, 20:25:39
Reply #9

maru

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I understand that, but if it's one button solution, then it means that in 50% of cases it might be unusable.

Unusable? I think that's a bit too harsh. If you don't like the result of applying the ACES OT operator, you can lower the contrast using other operators, like contrast, or Reinhard highlight compression (before or after the ACES OT operator).
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2022-04-06, 20:31:10
Reply #10

romullus

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Sorry, i probably should at least try it before criticising. Didn't want to sound too negative.

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2022-04-06, 20:55:50
Reply #11

piotrus3333

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I would say that if the the rendering does not look at least “quite good” (as far as tone mapping is concerned obviously) after aces display output transform you can safely assume something is wrong with your scene (if “realistic” is what you are after). they nailed the look really well.

ps: sort your display - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
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2022-04-06, 21:34:32
Reply #12

Dionysios.TS

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Thanks for your explanation Maru! As for the Filmic operators I understood immediately the issue but I needed a confirmation from you guys as well.

I love the new ACES OT, I personally find the results natural, highlights and contrast while I play with the exposure the behave like a real Photo Camera in my opinion.
Sometimes but not always I see the darks too darks but with a reflex the effect is the same at the end. I find using the Fuji Luts very helpful with ACES OT. I love the results, really!

As for the ACEScg color space, I see in your toy car example a big difference on the blue cars, we do suppose to use ACEScg color space instead of Wide RGB or is just a matter of final color taste at the end.
I personally do all my final correction process in Lightroom which it uses Wide RGB as well.

Great job, I am extremely happy!

2022-04-06, 21:35:24
Reply #13

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

While it currently seems that ACES OT is the "make it look nice" tool, I assume some people will still want to create their own custom tone mapping stacks to differentiate their images from everyone else using the default setting ;)

Thanks! :)

2022-04-06, 21:51:44
Reply #14

Dionysios.TS

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I am playing tonight with the new Tone Mapper and I've noticed that once applied the Curve Data modifier and then open the Curve Editor CIE is blocked while the Curve Editor is all white and I see no curves.

Thanks,

Dionysios -