Author Topic: Displacement behaviour Phoenix map  (Read 2144 times)

2021-04-26, 21:37:03

Flavius

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Hi there,
!HELP!
I have a catastrophic problem, somehow the behavior of the Phoenix FD ocean map is completely different, the displacement height seems capped. In Vector mode or non vector mode.
See attached, same map,same settings. Right is rendered with corona 6 and left is the new one(30th march daily). I'm kind of screwed because literally in all my scenes I am using Phoenix Ocean map and now all my old scenes are different. I asked a friend with Corona 5 to render this and it looked ok. Is there anyway i can revert to Corona 6 behavior? This is very important

It is impossible to create a stormy sea, I cannot raise the waves no matter what I do. Has something changed fundamentally in the way Corona calculates displacement?

Desperate level 10/10

!HELP!

2021-04-26, 21:42:56
Reply #1

Flavius

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Changing different height values of the map gives me these artifacts. I've been rendering with this map and Corona since 2015 and now suddenly something changes and it messes up everything.

EDIT: Rendering the map as a .tiff and using that as a displacement works fine so there is definitely something wrong the way Corona interprets procedural maps, or some maps.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-26, 22:12:42 by Flavius »

2021-04-26, 21:57:36
Reply #2

TomG

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Displacement in Corona 7 now has to be 2.5D displacement (previously, this was optional - can you check to see if you had 2.5D displacement disabled in Corona 6?)

2021-04-26, 22:15:24
Reply #3

Flavius

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Hi Tom,

I'm pretty sure it was on yes, because I was using higher pixel values for it. But now, for example, the behavior is so different that I cannot make a stormy sea, impossible to raise waves. I cannot recreate my old oceans :(

2021-04-27, 01:03:35
Reply #4

TomG

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Any chance you can send over a scene? (Link in signature has link to the private uploader). The 2.5D displacement is improved from before and fixes certain issues, but I wouldn't imagine that behavior would (or should, rather) break Phoenix.

2021-04-27, 10:27:35
Reply #5

dj_buckley

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This is what concerns me most about removing the old displacement.  Although I'm yet to try the Dailies, I've never had success with 2.5D but I've always been able to fall back on the old displacement at the expense of RAM.  To remove it completely seems crazy unless you're 100% confident that the new 2.5D is completely seamless.  I'd say 90% of my scenes use displacement, the old displacement, so if this 1 feature in Corona 7 isn't seamless then the release will be redundant for me because I won't have the old one to fall back on.  It's very common to have to dig up old files in Arch Viz, because designs change over the course of years and the duration of a building construction timeline.  I'm working on one of those projects now, and funnily enough it's the same one that triggered my dislike of 2.5D.

2021-04-27, 13:22:07
Reply #6

Frood

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I'm working on one of those projects now, and funnily enough it's the same one that triggered my dislike of 2.5D.

Seeing "Optimizing displacement" (2.5d) as "done" on trello is a bit sad for me as well, but it does not mean that displacement will not get attention anymore though.
As for old(er) long term projects (dealing with them myself): fortunately it is very easy and convenient to run older Corona versions (v5+) side by side with newer ones now. So I'd just keep an older version for full compatibility to work on those scenes.


Good Luck



Never underestimate the power of a well placed level one spell.

2021-04-27, 16:21:45
Reply #7

rowmanns

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Changing different height values of the map gives me these artifacts. I've been rendering with this map and Corona since 2015 and now suddenly something changes and it messes up everything.

EDIT: Rendering the map as a .tiff and using that as a displacement works fine so there is definitely something wrong the way Corona interprets procedural maps, or some maps.

Hi,

I would be very interested in a scene here if possible, also which version of Phoenix are you using?

Thanks,

Rowan
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2021-04-27, 16:52:37
Reply #8

Flavius

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Hi there,

I made a simple scene, which you can find here https://we.tl/t-JvGSkv9QlZ

Left plane is with corona displacement modifier on top of the plane and Phoenix FD map ( Vector mode disabled so we remove some variables and make it simpler)
Right plane is with the Phoenix map baked using Render to texture from the material editor.

I am almost certain this wasn't an issue with the first version of the daily build, but I'm in the middle of the project andi don't have time to test everything out, but I am quite desperate because I cannot render the waves properly and most important thing is to keep an option for the OLD behavior !! sometimes clients wake up and just want something change on a 3-4 year old project and everything else has to look the same.

Anyway, this doesn't seem like a different thing but something broken. I am using Phoenix 4.20 but as far as I know this map has been exactly the same for ages, I don't simulate anything. It works even without a license.

I really hope there will be an option for the old behavior or a quick fix or something

Thanks!



2021-04-27, 18:34:34
Reply #9

mienda

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Hello, there was a weird setting in the phoenix ocean map, you had increased the "velocity Coherence" to 0.8. With the default setting of 0.2 everything works for me  perfectly (corona 7 last "daily build").

mienda

2021-04-27, 18:40:39
Reply #10

Flavius

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Hello, there was a weird setting in the phoenix ocean map, you had increased the "velocity Coherence" to 0.8. With the default setting of 0.2 everything works for me  perfectly (corona 7 last "daily build").

mienda

Hi, that is by far a "weird setting". A velocity coherence of 1 means waves move in 1 direction as if there is a strong wind upon the ocean/sea. Normal values of that parameter are [0,1]. It should work regardless of this value as it has always worked in the past.

2021-04-27, 19:18:06
Reply #11

Flavius

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I asked a friend to try this scene out. This is the result in older corona, and he is using same Phoenix as me.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-27, 20:26:02 by Flavius »

2021-04-28, 09:11:04
Reply #12

mienda

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Ok i tried again, i relink the map and all render ok with max 2021, corona last daily build(april 21 2021) and last phoenix ocean.....
mienda

2021-04-28, 09:41:10
Reply #13

Flavius

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Ok i tried again, i relink the map and all render ok with max 2021, corona last daily build(april 21 2021) and last phoenix ocean.....
mienda

Thanks for trying it out but you have turned on vector mode which i wasn't using in the past because it didn't work properly, the problem was even logged (I think Maru tested it).

I reinstalled Corona, reinstalled all c++ libraries etc and the vector mode seems to work now, so it's fine for my future projects, the non vector mode is still broken though, which isn't a big deal anymore. I need it for legacy projects so to say but I can recreate the look with vector mode on

If you have a couple of minutes to spare, can you turn Off vector mode and try again please? I am really curious
« Last Edit: 2021-04-28, 09:51:08 by Flavius »

2021-04-28, 10:10:42
Reply #14

mienda

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Yes you're right, if i tick off vector works, it doesn't works well . So the ocean material  is not fully usable...

2021-05-02, 21:59:26
Reply #15

Flavius

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Hi there...

Any updates on this displacement issue? Is there any chance to keep a legacy checkbox for previous Corona behavior on it? It would be VERY helpful

thanks!

2021-05-04, 15:50:11
Reply #16

maru

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Hi Flavius, I am sorry, but I got a bit confused with the whole thread being lengthy, so I would appreciate some clarification:
To reproduce the issue, I should just take your sample scene and render it with Corona 6, and then with the newest V7 daily?
Or should I additionally change some setting? (e.g. turn vector displacement on/off in the Phoenix map)

Thanks in advance for clarifying that. What would work best would be:
- this used to work
- this doesn't work
- to reproduce do this

Thanks!

2021-05-04, 16:16:28
Reply #17

maru

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Ok, sorry, I don't need any extra steps. I was able to reproduce it, and I think I have a workaround for you:

1. Select your Phoenix map in the material editor.
2. Right click > Show / hide > Additional params > Show all
3. Change "RGB offset" to 0.5

This is not very professional, but... I have no idea what this is and why it works. I admin that I found it totally randomly, but it seems to fix the issue in V7.
V6 renders as expected.

I am attaching screenshots showing the option.

I will also report this to our dev team, and will most likely involve the Phoenix team.

(Report ID=CRMAX-529)

« Last Edit: 2021-05-04, 17:00:37 by maru »

2021-05-05, 08:29:25
Reply #18

Flavius

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Hi Maru,

Thanks for the workaround! I will try it asap...But man I don't know how you come up with these solutions. Also that extra noise I was having from the water...you turning caustics on and using a RaySwitch material, that's some true witchcraft there!

2021-05-06, 22:42:16
Reply #19

Feodor

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Recently I ran into the same problem, out of habit I assigned the texture to PhoenixFDOceanTex and saw this result. But quickly realizing that it was Vector Displacement, I put it in the standard 3ds max Vector Displacement card. Note that in the 6 version of Corona, this does not need to be done.

2021-05-11, 15:20:02
Reply #20

Flavius

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Hi, did you also notice that the quality is a bit worse with Corona 7 regarding displacement? I mean previously I could get very detailed water with about 2-3 pixel subdiv value at 5000 pixels images but now I need to lower that value to 1 to get similar results. I don't have time to do proper tests but I see how my water is less detailed at values that I've always been using. Is there anyway to keep a Corona 6 legacy displacement option please?

Thanks!

2021-05-12, 10:50:36
Reply #21

rowmanns

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Hi,

Unfortunately the old displacement won't be coming back. It had it's own issues and it was not possible for us to maintain two different displacement methods.

I think in some cases you will have to lower the screen size to get comparable quality, however the memory usage and computation time should also be lower than the old displacement.

If you find some situation where this is not true please let me know and we will investigate it.

Thanks,

Rowan
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2021-05-12, 11:18:14
Reply #22

dj_buckley

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Regarding the old displacement not coming back - I posted here a while back for something to check, the old displacement was much better at hiding these issues when problems arose.

https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=26398.60

2021-05-19, 10:44:18
Reply #23

Flavius

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Hi,

Unfortunately the old displacement won't be coming back. It had it's own issues and it was not possible for us to maintain two different displacement methods.

I think in some cases you will have to lower the screen size to get comparable quality, however the memory usage and computation time should also be lower than the old displacement.

If you find some situation where this is not true please let me know and we will investigate it.

Thanks,

Rowan

I understand... but I can say that I must really lower the subdivions value now of the displacement when I am using the Phoenix ocean map and it takes much more longer to calculate compared to Corona 6. I don't use any other kind of displacement, only for water and it's a bit of a pain now sadly.

2021-06-03, 19:43:41
Reply #24

rowmanns

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Hi Flavius,

We have fixed this in todays daily build (v7 2021-06-03). Please can you try it out and let me know if you have some more issues.

Cheers,

Rowan
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