Corona Renderer Forum

Corona Renderer for Cinema 4D => [C4D] Daily Builds => Topic started by: BigAl3D on 2021-01-02, 20:20:20

Title: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: BigAl3D on 2021-01-02, 20:20:20
Are there any examples of why the new PBR system is superior than before? Just curious. Seems like a major change and wanted to understand it better. Thanks.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: BigAl3D on 2021-01-02, 20:23:55
I found this blog post that does a pretty good job of showing the features that are being developed.

https://blog.corona-renderer.com/merry-christmas-2020-coronauts/
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: maru on 2021-01-04, 18:25:05
Please see this forum thread for some basic information about the features of the new material and the differences compared to the legacy one:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802

In short:
- it does not allow users to create fake materials (materials that are not possible in real life like plasti-metal)
- it looks better (since the materials are more physically accurate)
- it has new features (like the sheen parameter or anisotropic refraction)

We will definitely create a proper guide with examples for our helpdesk and the V7 release blog.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: rafaz on 2021-01-04, 21:27:47
Happy NY to everyone!

I just want to say that so far so good with the new PBR system, I really like the presets!!! It would be nice to have more of those, it definitely speed up work process.

Keep up the good work!! 
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Cinemike on 2021-01-04, 23:36:21
I just want to say that so far so good with the new PBR system, I really like the presets!!! It would be nice to have more of those, it definitely speed up work process.

A Czech renderer definitely needs a Pilsner preset!
Well, liquids in general.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: davemahi on 2021-01-04, 23:37:36
Please see this forum thread for some basic information about the features of the new material and the differences compared to the legacy one:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802

In short:
- it does not allow users to create fake materials (materials that are not possible in real life like plasti-metal)

I can understand that logic, but I have always found not being able to cheat shaders out of real world is a big problem for 3D artists.
To get realism you have to break the rules in CG (my opinion). You will always lead to a situation in a render where you say "well this is physically right, but something looks off"
Then you will be stuck with these basic PBR controls.

I don't think the renders in your example page (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802 (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802)) look all that great, even a bit more CG than usual. I loved Corona for how the materials looked compared to other renders. I hope the PBR look improves.

Dave.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: BigAl3D on 2021-01-05, 04:12:03
I guess to add to Dave's post, when on a deadline, sometimes doing things the "real" way will take too long to set up and too long to render. I always find a way to cheat for the right look.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: lollolo on 2021-01-05, 12:38:13
Please see this forum thread for some basic information about the features of the new material and the differences compared to the legacy one:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802

In short:
- it does not allow users to create fake materials (materials that are not possible in real life like plasti-metal)
- it looks better (since the materials are more physically accurate)
- it has new features (like the sheen parameter or anisotropic refraction)

We will definitely create a proper guide with examples for our helpdesk and the V7 release blog.

I followed this thread and I think the PBR material looks amazing but the old is amazing as well. So I would be interested to see "before and after". Old and new material directly compared.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: burnin on 2021-01-05, 14:55:46
a thought on Plastic-Metal and why PBR is Better

Oh, it's done faster, better and fake shit looks so real one can 'smell' it.
Now, the great thing about PBR is, it's our common ground!
Think! No more: "Je ne sais quoi."
Simply use referenced physical properties on a single material.
Don't be bothered anymore, make your client happy.
Voila!(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31989.0;attach=140448;image)

Really wanna know? Get experienced - Exercise in perception.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: ja_brzoza on 2021-01-06, 19:20:28
I'm trying the new Physical Material in C4D. As far as I can see the reflection IOR is linked with the refraction. Is there a way to limit the amount of reflection, but don't change the refraction? It is a realistic situation as when you take a photo and use polarizing filters you can limit the amount of reflected light. Is it possible to achieve this with PBR material?

Best,
Lukasz
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Barendby on 2021-01-07, 09:36:50
I cannot find help files on this material, is there any that I am missing?
I am used to adding a reflection color or material, is this now completely removed?
Is the only way to adjust the reflection the IOR?
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: maru on 2021-01-07, 15:12:14
I cannot find help files on this material, is there any that I am missing?

The material is only available in a daily build. This means that it's experimental and may change many times before the final release (its UI and functionality may change, and new features may be added). We usually release help files only when a feature is finalized. You can find some basic information in the 1st post here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802

We will create proper guides and meanwhile I am collecting frequent questions for a FAQ. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Cinemike on 2021-01-07, 16:36:40
While I love the new Physical material in general, I think checkboxes for Bump and Translucency are necessary. Always turning the effect to 0 for testing purposes is tedious and I tend to forget my earlier settings ;)
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Barendby on 2021-01-08, 07:05:14
I cannot find help files on this material, is there any that I am missing?

The material is only available in a daily build. This means that it's experimental and may change many times before the final release (its UI and functionality may change, and new features may be added). We usually release help files only when a feature is finalized. You can find some basic information in the 1st post here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=31802

We will create proper guides and meanwhile I am collecting frequent questions for a FAQ. Stay tuned.

Thank you!!
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: burnin on 2021-01-08, 10:44:48
About IOR in Physically Based Rendering workflow,

Ideally, every medium defines behavior of light transport differently (c - light speed). So with PBR in works, IOR isn't a surface property (there's no surface anymore). What we've got here is a volume boundary. And to describe/define it, we need a 'Volume Priority' feature. Because w/o it, it's quite tedious & counter productive to make proper behaving scene. While on the other hand, one can simply model a solid/volume/medium with anti-reflective properties (lower IOR) as in real world.
That's unless developers decide to also tackle "Layered material", making it additive. Which, if my speculation is correct, could possibly bring closer a feature to stack Volumes. Making a whole deal even easier. :)


PS
Light polarization is a different phenomena. See: "In the light of Polarization" (source @ Eclat Digital) (https://www.eclat-digital.com/2020/12/21/in-the-light-of-polarization/)
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Barendby on 2021-01-13, 08:20:41
How do I add a function if it is greyed out?
for instance, I want to use translucency but it is greyed out?
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: mmarcotic on 2021-01-13, 09:13:22
Hello,

we are aware that some of the features which are grayed out are not really clear UX/UI-wise on how to enable them. We have a fix ready in our development build, which should arrive to you soon.
In the meantime:
Translucency requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Refraction>Thin Absorbtion requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Opacity>Clip requires a texture map in the Opacity Texture
Volumetrics require refraction to be enabled
SSS requires Refraction at lower than 100 value.

Hope this makes it clear at this moment,
Jan
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: peka on 2021-01-13, 11:21:50
Thanks for the new PBR!
This post may be playing into the direction of my problem. I have a beer bottle with contents. The bottle with the given tinted glass (recolored) looks good. The contents are giving me trouble. If I also use the tinted glass and color it yellowish I don't get there with all parameters. Only when I use a clearcoat layer does it turn out as expected. But that does not seem correct to me. Is it not?

Is the problem once more between chair and monitor...?

Do you want the complete scene?

Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Barendby on 2021-01-13, 12:12:41
Hello,

we are aware that some of the features which are grayed out are not really clear UX/UI-wise on how to enable them. We have a fix ready in our development build, which should arrive to you soon.
In the meantime:
Translucency requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Refraction>Thin Absorbtion requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Opacity>Clip requires a texture map in the Opacity Texture
Volumetrics require refraction to be enabled
SSS requires Refraction at lower than 100 value.

Hope this makes it clear at this moment,
Jan

Thanks, this helps a lot!
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: dacian on 2021-01-13, 20:49:27
how do you set a Translucency color in the new material? Other than the base color.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Cinemike on 2021-01-14, 01:07:13
how do you set a Translucency color in the new material? Other than the base color.

My uneducated guess is that it has something to do with "Thin Absorption".
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: maru on 2021-01-14, 11:17:51
how do you set a Translucency color in the new material? Other than the base color.

Hello,

we are aware that some of the features which are grayed out are not really clear UX/UI-wise on how to enable them. We have a fix ready in our development build, which should arrive to you soon.
In the meantime:
Translucency requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Refraction>Thin Absorbtion requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Opacity>Clip requires a texture map in the Opacity Texture
Volumetrics require refraction to be enabled
SSS requires Refraction at lower than 100 value.

Hope this makes it clear at this moment,
Jan

Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: dacian on 2021-01-15, 13:46:37
how do you set a Translucency color in the new material? Other than the base color.

Hello,

we are aware that some of the features which are grayed out are not really clear UX/UI-wise on how to enable them. We have a fix ready in our development build, which should arrive to you soon.
In the meantime:
Translucency requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Refraction>Thin Absorbtion requires "Thin Shell" in General Tab
Opacity>Clip requires a texture map in the Opacity Texture
Volumetrics require refraction to be enabled
SSS requires Refraction at lower than 100 value.

Hope this makes it clear at this moment,
Jan


I'm talking about this setting in the screenshot here that seems to be missing. is it missing for the time being or i just can't find it?
what mmarcotic's mentioning seems to be another setting in the refraction, not the transparency tab.
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: lollolo on 2021-01-15, 18:07:17
I'm missing the color tab of translucency too...
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: burnin on 2021-01-15, 22:25:56
short thought of simple mind w/ eye on matter...
 
Dielectric first.
Its color (light wavelength) gets defined by absorption and scattering properties of medium (volume substance).
Sub-surface, transparency and/or translucency are then basically one and the same thing, just another medium property defined and differed by purity/clarity (homo-/hetero-geneity), density and thickness of its form.

Metals are much simpler and generally exhibit solely surface properties (exception being 100s nm thick - thin film).

Q's:
1. Dielectrics - How is nesting coming along?
2. Metals - Will spectral data get support (ie. sopra or n,k values)?


Some gentle mindset stirring is taking action.
:)
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: Frankco on 2021-01-20, 15:00:51
Thanks for the new PBR!
This post may be playing into the direction of my problem. I have a beer bottle with contents. The bottle with the given tinted glass (recolored) looks good. The contents are giving me trouble. If I also use the tinted glass and color it yellowish I don't get there with all parameters. Only when I use a clearcoat layer does it turn out as expected. But that does not seem correct to me. Is it not?

Is the problem once more between chair and monitor...?

Do you want the complete scene?

To Fix this you need the material be 'tiled' in the material tag, volumetric materials somehow needs tiling (both for the legacy and the new physical material)
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: lllab on 2021-01-29, 17:32:44
+1for  n,k values!:)
Title: Re: Why Is the New PBR Better?
Post by: lllab on 2021-05-07, 21:16:57
thanks a lot for the n and k values in last beta!!!:)

superb
Stefan