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Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Daily Builds => Topic started by: maru on 2020-04-17, 11:26:30

Title: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-17, 11:26:30
The newest daily build of Corona Renderer supports Phoenix FD foam and splashes!


Quick how to:
- Get the newest Corona Renderer daily build (16.04 or newer) - https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015
- Get the newest nightly build of Phoenix FD (6.4.2020 or newer)* - https://forums.chaosgroup.com/forum/phoenix-fd/phoenix-fd-general/956950-how-to-get-nightly-builds
*Older versions of Phoenix FD are supported too, but may not work correctly with Corona's interactive rendering (glitches, freezing, crashes), and may not contain some other bugfixes.
- Load an existing Phoenix FD simulation or create a new one - https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/PHX4MAX/Example+Scenes
- Make sure that Foam and Splashes are enabled in the Phoenix FD object and start the simulation (or resimulation) - https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/PHX4MAX/Liquid+Foam
- Apply any material to your liquid mesh (preferably some kind of liquid ;) )
- Optionally: adjust the settings of your Foam and Splashes particle shader objects
- Optionally: enable motion blur in your Corona Camera - it's supported for both the liquid mesh and foam/splashes!
- Optionally: enable caustics to become the cool kid - https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000056738
- Render!

Full V6 changelog: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=26830.0
Get the daily build here: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015

(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28883.0;attach=123891;image) (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28883.0;attach=123897;image) (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28883.0;attach=123895;image)


Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-17, 11:44:15
Hello there!

I am reposting my tests here as well. So glad this has been implemented. I have some questions:

1.The foam and splashes are rendered as an atmoshperic effect and not as geometry,right? If so, is it possible to have a element with that? Like V-ray has "V-ray Atmospheric" ? I would like to have all the foam particles in a separate element, that would be very helpful !

2. Is there anyway to get motion vectors out of it? Or is that possible only if the foam particles are rendered as geometry (which I know it is available in Vray) ? Any ideas how I can add motion blur in Fusion, but ONLY to the foam?

3. The displacement used in Phoenix Simulator... Is that being handled differently by Phoenix and not by Corona? I am asking this because Corona's displacement is far superior(literally cutting edge quality ). If I apply the same Phoenix FD ocean tex map to a simple plane with corona displacement and the exact same map to the Phoenix FD ocean mesh simulator, the phoenix one looks really bad. And even if I increase the ocean subdivision it takes ages to calculate and it still looks bad.  EDIT: Even if I disable displacement from the Common Tab from 3dsmax own render setup, Phoenix still renders the displacement. This I assume has something to do with Phoenix devs..but it worth trying ...if Corona could handle that displacement as it's the best in class. Ever..

Thanks a lot! And congrats for the awesome job you guys are doing!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-17, 11:52:37
@Flavius - I'll try to get the answers for you ASAP! :)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-17, 12:23:00
@Flavius - I'll try to get the answers for you ASAP! :)

Thanks!! The most crucial thing is, if Corona can handle the displacement. Hopefully it is not difficult to do. I have high hopes on this
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-17, 14:54:21
Hello there!

I am reposting my tests here as well. So glad this has been implemented. I have some questions:

1.The foam and splashes are rendered as an atmoshperic effect and not as geometry,right? If so, is it possible to have a element with that? Like V-ray has "V-ray Atmospheric" ? I would like to have all the foam particles in a separate element, that would be very helpful !

2. Is there anyway to get motion vectors out of it? Or is that possible only if the foam particles are rendered as geometry (which I know it is available in Vray) ? Any ideas how I can add motion blur in Fusion, but ONLY to the foam?

3. The displacement used in Phoenix Simulator... Is that being handled differently by Phoenix and not by Corona? I am asking this because Corona's displacement is far superior(literally cutting edge quality ). If I apply the same Phoenix FD ocean tex map to a simple plane with corona displacement and the exact same map to the Phoenix FD ocean mesh simulator, the phoenix one looks really bad. And even if I increase the ocean subdivision it takes ages to calculate and it still looks bad.  EDIT: Even if I disable displacement from the Common Tab from 3dsmax own render setup, Phoenix still renders the displacement. This I assume has something to do with Phoenix devs..but it worth trying ...if Corona could handle that displacement as it's the best in class. Ever..

Thanks a lot! And congrats for the awesome job you guys are doing!


Here is the current situation:

ad 1) The foam is rendered as geometry, we don't have anything like the V-ray atmospheric effects. But we can add some render element that contains only directly seen foam.

ad 2) Except for the points mode, where motion blur is handled directly by Phoenix FD, we handle motion blur ourselves the same way as the rest of the geometry. So velocity element should work (unless it is somehow broken for foam, we will check this).

ad 3) Displacement of the volumetric media and liquid is handled by Phoenix. We get the already displaced mesh/volume. Not sure if some improvement would be possible here, but we can look into it.

I'll log all of this, and we will do what we can.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-17, 15:02:23

1. !!Outstanding!! A Render element to contain only directly seen foam would be really really nice! This would help a lot compositing jobs and fine tuning the look!

2. Ok, so the checkbox in Phoenix Foam - Render as geometry (vray only) is basically ON by default in Corona. Good to know, then motion vectors should be fine then. I will test this soon.

3. I am testing this right now and I can say that Phoenix displacement is incredibly slow and it eats HUGE amounts of RAM. So if Corona could handle this, hats off to you all!

Thanks a lot for this!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-19, 10:58:51
Hello!
some things I am discovering and hopefully will be implemented

1.I have noticed that the cutter geometry function from the Foam Shader is not working with Corona at the moment. I think it is a very usefull option.  Will you guys implement this? I really hope so :)

2."We do not support separate environment map for PhoenixFD Foam. Particles will use the same environment map(s) as the rest of the scene geometry." This one as well pretty please? - EDIT: I found a workaround this so probably not so important
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: filippo.previtali on 2020-04-21, 13:35:32
Hi all.
Foam and splashes available in Corona are awesome!
I was wondering....does anyone know a workaround to make the wetmap working with Corona?

thanks a lot!

F
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-22, 15:18:47
@Flavius - weird, but I am getting opposite results to yours. The large plane below is using Phoenix displacement, and the smaller plane above is using Corona Displacement. You can check out the scene and rendering here.
Could you send me a similar scene, where you are getting the reverse results?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: thilima3d on 2020-04-22, 16:34:07
First test on Corona Render 6.0 Daily Build.

Phoenix + Foam + caustics.
Sim time = 2secs per frame
Rendertime = 30 secs to 2 mins per frame

https://www.instagram.com/thilima3d/
https://www.facebook.com/thilima3d
https://www.behance.net/thilima3d
https://www.youtube.com/user/thilima3d
https://thilima.com.br/course/coronarender/
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: paofos on 2020-04-22, 22:12:18
Bellissimo, ho provato ma non riesco a fare della bella schiuma e ci vuole tanto tempo per calcolarlo, qualcuno potrebbe darmi qualche info per renderlo piĆ¹ veloce grazie[/img]

all this is very nice but it would be possible to have parameters to have a good foam and without having a lot of calculation time and with a good resolution, someone could help, thanks
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-23, 09:27:44
all this is very nice but it would be possible to have parameters to have a good foam and without having a lot of calculation time and with a good resolution, someone could help, thanks

I believe this is a general Phoenix question. Did you check their documentation? It's really great!
https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/PHX4MAX/Phoenix+FD+for+3ds+Max+Help
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-27, 10:41:58
Looks what's coming up! (should be in the next Corona daily / Phoenix nightly)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-27, 12:45:58
Looks what's coming up! (should be in the next Corona daily / Phoenix nightly)

!!! Just great !!!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-29, 13:40:35
2."We do not support separate environment map for PhoenixFD Foam. Particles will use the same environment map(s) as the rest of the scene geometry." This one as well pretty please? - EDIT: I found a workaround this so probably not so important

Sorry, but most probably this won't happen, because:
- it's adding unnecessary physical incorrectness
- it would be hard to implement in Corona, and might introduce some further issues

Can you tell me what is the workaround you eventually used? This could help other users.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-29, 15:10:16
3. The displacement used in Phoenix Simulator... Is that being handled differently by Phoenix and not by Corona? I am asking this because Corona's displacement is far superior(literally cutting edge quality ). If I apply the same Phoenix FD ocean tex map to a simple plane with corona displacement and the exact same map to the Phoenix FD ocean mesh simulator, the phoenix one looks really bad. And even if I increase the ocean subdivision it takes ages to calculate and it still looks bad.  EDIT: Even if I disable displacement from the Common Tab from 3dsmax own render setup, Phoenix still renders the displacement. This I assume has something to do with Phoenix devs..but it worth trying ...if Corona could handle that displacement as it's the best in class. Ever..

We will see if some improvements can be done here, but can't promise anything at this point.
Possible workarounds:
- Disable the native Phoenix object displacement. Then connect the displacement map to the material which is applied to your Phoenix object.
- Disable the native Phoenix object displacement. Then put the Corona Displacement Modifier on top of your Phoenix object and plug your displacement map there.

I tried this, and honestly did not see much improvement in quality/pre-rendering time, but maybe it is worth trying? Also, this way you let Corona handle the displacement, with autobump.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-04-29, 16:40:16
1. !!Outstanding!! A Render element to contain only directly seen foam would be really really nice! This would help a lot compositing jobs and fine tuning the look!

Update: just adding a CMasking_Mask render element and picking the Particle Shader object seems to work fine. Please test this and let us know here if something seems to be missing.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-04-30, 10:10:24
1. !!Outstanding!! A Render element to contain only directly seen foam would be really really nice! This would help a lot compositing jobs and fine tuning the look!

Update: just adding a CMasking_Mask render element and picking the Particle Shader object seems to work fine. Please test this and let us know here if something seems to be missing.

Hi there, sorry I was busy with *actual work :( *. I will get back to you, I remember trying this initially but there were some issues with above/under water. I will double check, and will get back, hopefully I find some time this week.

Congrats for all the hard work for this!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-03, 18:33:45


Yep, I remembered correctly, the C_Masking element doesn't work properly I think. Please see attached. It seems like the masking element ignores the size of the particles and only "reads' the dots...I don't know how to say it. I have specific size values in the Foam and Splash shaders and probably is not taking those into account?

Another thing, and this really is important. The Cutter geometry in the shader rollout is not working with Corona. It ignores it completely. Is this difficult to implement?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-04, 19:14:10

We will see if some improvements can be done here, but can't promise anything at this point.
Possible workarounds:
- Disable the native Phoenix object displacement. Then connect the displacement map to the material which is applied to your Phoenix object.
- Disable the native Phoenix object displacement. Then put the Corona Displacement Modifier on top of your Phoenix object and plug your displacement map there.

I tried this, and honestly did not see much improvement in quality/pre-rendering time, but maybe it is worth trying? Also, this way you let Corona handle the displacement, with autobump.

Hi,

As I mentioned in the email, this doesn't because the geometry is very "turbulent" at the back part of the sihp and it messes up the ship's wake as well. Another HUGE problem is thar Phoenix goes out of RAM(I have 64 GB) even with ocean subdivisions to 2.5 and off screen margin to only 20. I cannot render over 1600 px height. Corona displacement has no issues AT ALL with this. I know this is a Phoenix problem but that is why I am trying to get Corona to handle the displacement...Also the time to parse the scene is insane with Phoenix. You can try it out, with the a simulation frame loaded ( I think I've sent that with the scene, if not please let me know and I will send it.) I can also record the screen to show the problem or? I don't know, I'm getting desperate here :))
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: svetlin.nikolov on 2020-05-05, 11:55:56
Hey,

Just a few notes that should help you understand the setup better in case you've not found these in the Phoenix docs.

Phoenix in Max always produces a standard Max mesh in the viewport.

This means that you can do whatever you like with it - turn it into an editable poly, add modifiers, etc - it's just any other geometry, it just changes each frame.

So you can put any kind of displacement modifier on top of it. You just gotta know that the mesh detail in Mesh render mode comes directly from the simulator grid resolution. If you want more detail, you might need to subdivide it additionally.

In Ocean Mesh and Cap Mesh modes Phoenix subdivides the mesh into screen space according to the Ocean Subdivs. Note that 2.5 is a huge value. It means that per each rendered image pixel, you will get 2.5x2.5 -> 6 quads or 12 triangles. This is likely the reason you run out of RAM.

Since the Phoenix mesh is just like any other mesh, you could throw a displacement modifier on top of it without using the Displacement under the Rendering rollout of the Simulator. The difference between the displacement modifier and the built in displacement is that the latter produces the viewport mesh, while the former is calculated at render time. This is why there is no problem even to have both, though I doubt that this would be useful. So you can have a flat Phoenix Mesh or Ocean Mesh, and you can put any displacement modifier on top of it.

Additionally, if you are missing detail in the displacement and you use a Phoenix Ocean Tex, you might need to look at the Ocean Tex option and increase its level of detail.

I hope this helps shed some light on the inner workings of the tools, so you can have better control over what happens. Cheers :)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-05, 12:03:31
Hey,

Just a few notes that should help you understand the setup better in case you've not found these in the Phoenix docs.

Phoenix in Max always produces a standard Max mesh in the viewport.

This means that you can do whatever you like with it - turn it into an editable poly, add modifiers, etc - it's just any other geometry, it just changes each frame.

So you can put any kind of displacement modifier on top of it. You just gotta know that the mesh detail in Mesh render mode comes directly from the simulator grid resolution. If you want more detail, you might need to subdivide it additionally.

In Ocean Mesh and Cap Mesh modes Phoenix subdivides the mesh into screen space according to the Ocean Subdivs. Note that 2.5 is a huge value. It means that per each rendered image pixel, you will get 2.5x2.5 -> 6 quads or 12 triangles. This is likely the reason you run out of RAM.

Since the Phoenix mesh is just like any other mesh, you could throw a displacement modifier on top of it without using the Displacement under the Rendering rollout of the Simulator. The difference between the displacement modifier and the built in displacement is that the latter produces the viewport mesh, while the former is calculated at render time. This is why there is no problem even to have both, though I doubt that this would be useful. So you can have a flat Phoenix Mesh or Ocean Mesh, and you can put any displacement modifier on top of it.

Additionally, if you are missing detail in the displacement and you use a Phoenix Ocean Tex, you might need to look at the Ocean Tex option and increase its level of detail.

I hope this helps shed some light on the inner workings of the tools, so you can have better control over what happens. Cheers :)

Hi Svetlin!

Thanks so much for clearing out some things. I recently got the latest nightly build of Phoenix(and permission to write on the forums) and I have a couple of things I have noticed, maybe even some small bugs I discovered. I will prepare screenshots and everything needed and we will continue (hopefully) the discussion on the Phoenix FD forums.

Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: svetlin.nikolov on 2020-05-05, 14:40:10
Absolutely, please ping us if there is anything fishy you stumble upon :)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-05, 17:15:12
Since there is a large number of requests, I made this little summary. Hope it's correct and up-to-date:

Render element showing foam particles
Internal report: 496887441
Suggested solution: use CMasking_Mask render element
Problems: Renders incorrectly? Something wrong when under/above water?
@Flavius - I am not able to see what is wrong in the images you provided. Could you please send me an example scene, where the CMasking_Mask element is not producing the expected result? Please make the scene as lightweight as possible. :)


Motion vectors
Internal report: 496892730
Solution: Fixed, should work fine.
Problems: are there any?


Phoenix vs Corona displacement performance
Internal report: 497834853
Suggested solution: (as suggested by Svetlin) Disable the displacement option in the Phoenix object. Put Corona Displacement modifier on top. Does that help?
Problems: @Flavius - are there any when using the suggested solution above?


Cutter geometry
Internal report: 499361546
Status: we probably won't have this in V6, but we may have it later.


Separate environment map
Internal report: 499377255
Status: most probably this won't happen, because:
- it's adding unnecessary physical incorrectness
- it would be hard to implement in Corona, and might introduce some further issues


Wetmaps
Internal report: not reported yet
Status: We should look into it. I am on it!

Update: here https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=28883.msg169718#msg169718






Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: thilima3d on 2020-05-05, 17:32:39

* This is a TEST... I was not worried about wetmaps or veg animation *
Another simple test using Phoenix FD (with foam) + Corona 6.0 (Daily Build) + Caustics + Motion Blur.
Hope you like it :)

https://thilima.com.br/course/coronarender/
https://www.instagram.com/thilima3d/
https://www.facebook.com/thilima3d
https://www.behance.net/thilima3d
https://www.youtube.com/user/thilima3d
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: caioquintana on 2020-05-05, 17:52:58
Hey guys,

could not find any details how corona renders phoenix particles. I have a simulation made in Houdini, is it possible to render in corona? If I export particles and ocean mesh in alembic, can I use velocity attributes? Can I render foam particles as volume or just points/spheres?

Thanks
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-05, 17:59:25
Update on wetmaps:
It seems to work fine as soon as you DISABLE the "Render-time Only" checkbox in the Particle Texture map. See the attached renders from Corona and Vray.
I will now report this to our devs.

Update:
Reported:
(Internal ID=502846150)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-06, 09:56:13
Hi Maru,

Regarding the Corona Mask for the foam shader, please see attached. I have put a curves layer, dragged the sliders all down so the difference is visible. It looks like the mask is not covering the foam particles, and even if I adjust the levels of the mask to be in full range there are still gaps.

-----

As for the displacement, I will take this on the Phoenix FD Forums, maybe I am doing something wrong, but to reach the same level of detail I have with Corona Displacement in Phoenix displacement I would need insane amount of ocean subdivisons values which leads me out of RAM (I do now understand why but still...)  See the attached example... I realise one is calculated at the render time, and one is actually displaced. But in the end for me, using Phoenix displacement at an animation of 600 frames leads to over 8hours in extra rendering time and a bad horizon. Phoenix is a great tool and Corona has epic displacement, I 'm just trying to combine them :)). I will try to use displacement over the mesh but that leads to other problems for example, Phoenix moves the particles up/down according to the displacement map.

EDIT: Putting Corona displacement over Phoenix FD mesh leads to a 3dsmax crash on pressing the cancel button or unlimited calculations of displacement.  EVEN LATER EDIT : If I put Edit Poly on top of phoenix sim and then add corona displacement it works, but...the displacement calculation times goes of the roof again. I thought it's about the number of polygons, but putting the displacement on a 3 million poly plane is really fast so it's not the number of polygons of the underyling mesh that the displacement is added on... I will convert the phoenix mesh to alembic and see how that goes.

---

One more thing..the height parameter in the Phoenix Ocean Map seems to be ignored by Corona displacement? even setting it to 0 makes no changes? Is this a know issues that I missed or am I being doing something wrong?

---
!! Thanks !!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-06, 21:35:00
!!

Collapsing the mesh to edit poly and applying the Corona displacement modifier reduces the calculation time back to 2-3-10 seconds tops.

exporting the phoenix fd mesh to alembic works, it calculates the displacement really fast. But doing it this way complicates my workflow a lot...


Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-07, 14:09:47
Regarding the Corona Mask for the foam shader, please see attached. I have put a curves layer, dragged the sliders all down so the difference is visible. It looks like the mask is not covering the foam particles, and even if I adjust the levels of the mask to be in full range there are still gaps.
Do you have the "Propagate masks" option enabled for your water material? If not, try setting it to "Always" (see screenshot).
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-07, 14:16:29
One more thing..the height parameter in the Phoenix Ocean Map seems to be ignored by Corona displacement? even setting it to 0 makes no changes? Is this a know issues that I missed or am I being doing something wrong?

Are you feeding your Ocean texture through the 3ds Max Vector Displacement map? I believe this is the only way to make it work correctly.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-07, 14:42:02
One more thing..the height parameter in the Phoenix Ocean Map seems to be ignored by Corona displacement? even setting it to 0 makes no changes? Is this a know issues that I missed or am I being doing something wrong?

Are you feeding your Ocean texture through the 3ds Max Vector Displacement map? I believe this is the only way to make it work correctly.

Jesus bested Christ what a  banana head i am sometimes haha...I actually knew this some time ago, then by some weird reason I stopped using the vector disp map and I forgot about it completely. Thanks man!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-07, 14:54:40
Happens to the best of us! :)
Please also check out my other post about foam masks (this: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=28883.msg169893#msg169893)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-08, 09:58:56
Happens to the best of us! :)
Please also check out my other post about foam masks (this: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=28883.msg169893#msg169893)

Setting the mask as you said indeed fixes the problem!

I know i am pushing it but the dream would be to have the particles as separate layer completely. Like Bloom and Glare..you have the beauty pass with no Bloom and Glare and then a separate element with Bloom and one can composite those easily in post. If the particles are "burned" in the beauty pass a lot of flexibility is lost. (For instance, I can easily erase particles I don't want in post production with masks etc) but I realise probably it is not easy to implement.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: peterguthrie on 2020-05-11, 12:05:25
I didnt realise we were supposed to be using a vector displacement map with phoenix!

quick question though, where would one place vector displacement nodes if mixing multiple phoenixocean textures with coronamix?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-11, 17:37:01
@Peter - Looks like only plugging the Ocean maps into a CoronaMix and then plugging this into Vector Displacement works, but I think vector displacement should be blended in some other way (like normal maps). So maybe you would have to split it into separate RGB channels and then mix them somehow?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-11, 17:42:28
Update: ok, it seems to work fine provided that you uncheck "Perform mixing in sRGB" in the Corona Mix map!

(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28883.0;attach=126150;image)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: peterguthrie on 2020-05-12, 00:35:09
thanks Maru, will check my scene tomorrow to see if i can fix it.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-12, 09:46:03
Hi,

From the Phoenix Fd Forums: the way they blend the ocean map is as Maru said, to break it into RGB. I have attached here a screenshot. But if it works unchecking "mixing in sRGB" would be awesome. Will try it soon.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-12, 11:53:21
Uhh... I tried doing something similar and ended up with identical result as with just using Corona Mix. But it would be great if someone could do further tests.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-12, 12:06:54
Uhh... I tried doing something similar and ended up with identical result as with just using Corona Mix. But it would be great if someone could do further tests.

This is great news for me, because all those nodes to break up the RGB is way too much for something which shouldn't be complicated.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-12, 13:06:37
I am just not sure if slapping one vector map on top of each other is the correct way (e.g. if you want to add them), just like with normal maps:
https://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/blending-in-detail/
https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/38298/how-to-combine-two-normal-maps
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: romullus on 2020-05-12, 14:28:51
I am just not sure if slapping one vector map on top of each other is the correct way (e.g. if you want to add them), just like with normal maps:
https://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/blending-in-detail/
https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/38298/how-to-combine-two-normal-maps

Sorry for offtopic, but could be this (advanced normal map combining methods) implemented in Corona layered material? It looks like all game engines are doing this at more or less sophisticated level and only off-line renderers are stuck with decades old primitive methods.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-12, 15:14:04
I am just not sure if slapping one vector map on top of each other is the correct way (e.g. if you want to add them), just like with normal maps:
https://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/blending-in-detail/
https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/38298/how-to-combine-two-normal-maps

Sorry for offtopic, but could be this (advanced normal map combining methods) implemented in Corona layered material? It looks like all game engines are doing this at more or less sophisticated level and only off-line renderers are stuck with decades old primitive methods.

Sure, I will report it.

I also realized that vector displacement does not generate autobump :O
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: romullus on 2020-05-12, 15:19:24
Thanks!

I also realized that vector displacement does not generate autobump :O

Maybe that's for the better? I can imagine how it can easily lead to unpredictable results.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-12, 15:25:36
Nononoono...

Autobump is a MUST and it makes corona displacement of great value for me. Without it, the ocean horizon looks quite bad as in the image I have previosuly attached.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: romullus on 2020-05-12, 15:47:27
In your example vector displacement isn't even needed. Can you imagine how autobump should look on this render?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-12, 15:57:50
In your example vector displacement isn't even needed. Can you imagine how autobump should look on this render?

I can imagine it would add detail where the subdivision level is hit, just like with regular displacement maps.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: romullus on 2020-05-12, 16:42:03
I will believe it when i see it :] Who knows, maybe it indeed could work.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Flavius on 2020-05-24, 20:05:51
Phoenix FD map plugged into vector map seems only to be working with displacement from the material but it doesn't work with the Corona displacement modifier. Can you please check this on your side? Thanks!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-25, 09:34:11
Phoenix FD map plugged into vector map seems only to be working with displacement from the material but it doesn't work with the Corona displacement modifier. Can you please check this on your side? Thanks!
Sure!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2020-05-27, 13:46:07
Phoenix FD map plugged into vector map seems only to be working with displacement from the material but it doesn't work with the Corona displacement modifier. Can you please check this on your side? Thanks!
Sure!

Confirmed, not just with Phoenix Ocean, but with any kind of Vector Displacement. Logged:
(Internal ID=511645028)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: mvpetropolis on 2020-12-23, 21:25:25
Hello guys, I'm trying to learn Phoenix, a little doubt the version for the corna render is the same as the vray? Is there anything you have to do to use it in the corna render?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Leonardo20 on 2021-06-16, 12:51:27
Hello everybody! No foam and splash while rendering ((((( . Who knows what the problem might be?

I have the latest corona 6 (hotfix 2) and phoenix 4.41, 3d max 2021 installed.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2021-06-16, 13:24:25
If you select your Particle Shader objects (Particle Shader Foam and Particle Shader Splashes) what are their settings? Could you please send similar screenshots for those objects?
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Leonardo20 on 2021-06-16, 13:32:20
Thanks for your answer! Sure! I add it to attachments!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2021-06-16, 13:36:32
Please try changing the mode from "points" to any other one (ideally "bubbles" for the foam and "splashes" for the splashes). I might be wrong about the naming, but they should be similar, sorry. :)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Leonardo20 on 2021-06-16, 15:16:46
Something seems to have changed!!!!!!!!!
It only takes more time for a render. And the sea got higher .
I will render and change settings.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2021-06-16, 15:31:47
Does it mean it is working now? :)
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Leonardo20 on 2021-06-16, 15:39:26
I can say about this only tomorrow. Now i will start a new render, and check result tomorrow.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Leonardo20 on 2021-06-21, 06:26:30
Does it mean it is working now? :)

Hello  Maru! it is working! Thanks.
It is not perfect. There are  Some oddities with foam size.
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: maru on 2021-06-21, 14:21:33
Great! I think the size of the bubbles can be controlled with the object's properties. Check out these awesome guides with image and video examples:
1) https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/PHX4MAX/Liquid+Foam
2) https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/PHX4MAX/Particle+Shader+%7C+PHXFoam
Title: Re: Phoenix FD Foam and Splashes playground!
Post by: Caue Rodrigues on 2021-08-20, 00:28:48
Hello there
my attempt to making some soap bubbles.