Author Topic: Price Increase  (Read 7114 times)

2024-01-11, 14:40:02

dj_buckley

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Just had an email from Chaos informing of another 10% price increase to an annual Corona Premium Subscription, this coming after last years 100%+ increase.  Thoughts people?

2024-01-11, 14:42:39
Reply #1

Jpjapers

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The more the price increases the more incentive i have to learn a realtime engine. So unless they can sort out good, seamless vantage integration soon to save me the hassle, i cant see there being a need for me to remain using an offline renderer for the majority of my work.

2024-01-11, 14:56:55
Reply #2

dj_buckley

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Found myself questioning the same thing recently.  I've also started asking myself, "What am I actually paying for?".  No disrespect to the Corona Devs but I was struggling to find a single USP for Corona these days.  What does it have that doesn't already exist?  What does it offer me over other solutions?  I think these are valid questions when the price keeps going up.

I was looking at the 'Major Features' of the V11 when it was released and everything already exists elsewhere.  Sure it's nice to have all in one place and not have to pay for 3rd party software, but it was pretty underwhelming on the whole especially for long time users that already have pipelines and workflows using these other tools and 3rd party software.

Tile Map - already exists and the implementation isn't fully complete i.e. requires workarounds to get it working as a Bump Map.
Scatter Altitude - has been in Forest Pack for years
Scatter Look At - has been in Forest Pack for years
Edge Shader - very specific use cases, isn't quite the Edge Shader I thought it was going to be i.e. akin to VRay Toon
Power Tools - already exists in the form of 3rd party scripts

Then you've got things like -

Roughness Modulation - I'd call this fixing a problem rather than a feature etc

I just feel that at the minute, we're being asked to pay more and more for something that's always second to the party.

So I guess the bigger question is, what is justifying these price increases and what benefits am I actually getting from paying it?

2024-01-11, 15:04:48
Reply #3

hurrycat

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This is not encouraging at all. The price increase seems unjustified to me, right after last year's huge price increase and shady Chaos practices.

On top of that, I have the feeling that Corona development has slowed down, with what should be hotfixes marketed as new releases. How can you justify another price increase when you can't show any great new features for it? Corona Tentative Road map is disappointing to say the least.

I'm afraid more users, including me, will start looking at alternatives. My last hope is that something great is coming, but one can only wish.


2024-01-11, 15:15:25
Reply #4

arqrenderz

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What we dont like is the features they push, like Corona Power toys... Did i miss that "Feature" from the upcoming ones in trello ? or the Most wanted feature board?
What about the "Rewriting scene parsing" that has been pushed 4 years.. You want to compete with Unreal or real time engines? Make Magic for us, cut those times so the user can see faster what they are working.
Edge map was also a rabbit from a hat to all of us, TOON shader has been asked for YEARS, so i guess its complicated to do, please BITE the bullet and do it, if it can take 4 years to do it we would have it already..

2024-01-11, 15:17:21
Reply #5

Peter A.

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I'm biting my tongue hardly to keep it on topic. I'm trying to keep all costs at reasonable level, so I'm considering purchasing Solo Yearly license. It's €322.80 (plus 20% VAT), but it's still huge saving comparing to Solo monthly for €66*12 = €792!!!

The worst thing is that I don't have a feeling that I'm getting better software for bigger price. Support is terrible, Corona seems to be buggier than before so the only thing that's keeping me using Corona Renderer is the amount of work to be finished this year…

2024-01-11, 15:28:07
Reply #6

matteosperi

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I am a premium user; and I am very disappointed with the price increase again.
Cryptomatte in VFB as vray : not present yet; and I have the impression that after the acquisition of chaos the development of corona slowed down a lot.
Corona version 11: very disappointing; small developments.

For example: d5 render (lower rendering quality); but the updates are always amazing

M.

2024-01-11, 16:54:59
Reply #7

davemahi

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Add me to the list of confused and disappointed. The value is just not there anymore and there are so many alternatives.

2024-01-11, 17:06:02
Reply #8

pokoy

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Just had an email from Chaos informing of another 10% price increase to an annual Corona Premium Subscription, this coming after last years 100%+ increase.  Thoughts people?
Just read the email. If I remember correctly the last price increase came with a comment along the lines of "this will allow us to keep the price stable for the next years".

2024-01-11, 22:30:28
Reply #9

steyin

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I dropped Corona when the initial increase happened. I expected something like this so I'm not surprised. Granted now my office pays for my rendering subscription, but we are on VRay, not Corona. I would have preferred Corona, but from a purely independent standpoint (in terms of paying for it myself), it wasn't and still isn't worth it at the price point. In all honesty, I expect Corona to be fully absorbed into VRay in the coming years. Still never could afford VRay on my own anyway.
Looking towards Blender/free options now for personal use.

2024-01-11, 23:43:12
Reply #10

Luke

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anyone gone over to fstorm? thoughts?

2024-01-12, 00:53:54
Reply #11

Tom

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Of course, it's disappointing to receive this email about a 10% price increase, especially when we see the number of complaints posted regarding the slowdowns of Corona 11 with Max 2024. For now, I stick to C10 for this reason.
I don't want to disrespect Corona devs, but one might wonder if they test their software thoroughly before releasing a new version for public download.

And I agree 100% with what was mentioned earlier: the "new features" look more like integrations of already existing third-party plugins features. Personally, I use Forest Pro, and I have no interest in Chaos Scatter.

FStorm? You said FStorm? Hmm... Tempting.

2024-01-12, 09:33:12
Reply #12

matteosperi

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Exactly;
Corona 11 can be called 10.3 / .4/.6...
there is no information about AI inside corona and other software like d5 are implementing.
Corona is always superior to realtime engines for static images, but as a user, I don't see the correlation between price increase and real updates provided
(video production, calculation speed, integration with vantage if possible);
and Corona Academy has no new monthly updates.

As a user I prefer fewer versions (corona 11,12) but with real and serious updates (for me corona 11 was the most disappointing version of recent years),
and more updates (11.2,11.3...)
For example vray is at version 6, corona is at version 11??
M.

2024-01-12, 09:42:51
Reply #13

matteosperi

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Anyway ,
Corona is always the best software in Archviz for static images;
if the price increases, I hope for a new update management
M.

2024-01-12, 10:13:48
Reply #14

romullus

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As a user I prefer fewer versions (corona 11,12) but with real and serious updates (for me corona 11 was the most disappointing version of recent years),
and more updates (11.2,11.3...)
For example vray is at version 6, corona is at version 11??

It's just a number. Would it make any difference if we'd have Corona 3.6 now instead of 11? At least its naming scheme is consistent, unlike of some computer hardware manufacturers, or car brands.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2024-01-12, 10:24:54
Reply #15

lollolo

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What we dont like is the features they push, like Corona Power toys... Did i miss that "Feature" from the upcoming ones in trello ? or the Most wanted feature board?
What about the "Rewriting scene parsing" that has been pushed 4 years.. You want to compete with Unreal or real time engines? Make Magic for us, cut those times so the user can see faster what they are working.
Edge map was also a rabbit from a hat to all of us, TOON shader has been asked for YEARS, so i guess its complicated to do, please BITE the bullet and do it, if it can take 4 years to do it we would have it already..

+1

Honestly, I'm also disappointed with the price increase. V11 wasn't a great release from a user perspective (I understand that there may be much work done under the hood which we users can't see)
And if I assume, that we will get Vantage support in the future, that would result in additional €600, together almost €1000, and even more if you have a premium subscription.
That's just too much for a yearly subscription. Corona/Chaos team should really offer its users a more attractive deal, otherwise some will be forced to look somewhere else. 

2024-01-12, 11:22:18
Reply #16

matteosperi

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hi, for me yes;
corona 11 must be a really very important upgrade compared to corona 10 (my opinion).
It's important for users, I think.

2024-01-12, 13:01:43
Reply #17

TomG

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A few small points: one person mentioned dropping Corona last price increase to move to V-Ray - V-Ray has a price increase right now too, as an fyi. Another noted about AI, commenting there's nothing listed on the Corona map compared to "other software", but that's because it's an overall Chaos initiative - see https://www.chaos.com/next for the things that are being investigated or actively worked on (and Corona will benefit from these too of course). And of course we are attentive to your feedback and comments here as well.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-12, 13:46:54
Reply #18

zaar

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I'm disapointed here too. Like every commercial software just keeps increasing in price. Some add features people want, some don't, and people want different things. However, the landscape is shifting towards open source and real time for many people, and the timing is just feels way off.

When the price was increased before we also got Phoenix etc, and Chaos could cash in on many more users by bundeling software and charging for something they were producing anyway.
If this increase was timed with "now Anima is included" I would've jumped out of my chair screaming hooray! Now the feeling is just "what? why? Is it an indication of a new direction and is going to keep happening every year? And has Corona usage decreased so much they have to charge more to break even or what is this?"

And to everyone working at Chaos/Corona I really like using the product. It's really great at what it does. For me it's the best and most fun to use CPU-renderer.

2024-01-12, 14:03:07
Reply #19

jasond

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No mention in the email about what happens with long term, legacy FairSaaS users with render nodes. If I recall from the last price increase, those on the 'Premium' plan got to keep the nodes. What is happening this time? We're in for a €2000 increase that wasn't budgeted for if this changes. Not the best timing to release this increase after annual budgets are submitted.

For clarity on the Render Nodes, nothing has changed here - extra render nodes were dropped with the release of Corona 8, not with Corona 9, so it's been this way since April. That is, unless you were an existing user before Corona 8 in which case you got to keep whatever render nodes you used to have, and you still get to keep those with Corona 9 too so long as your Premium subscription remains renewed.

2024-01-12, 15:44:49
Reply #20

TomG

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There's no change there, if you have historical "+3 render nodes", as long as that subscription renews and remains unbroken, it remains "+3 render nodes". Just it renews at the new price for a Premium subscription of course. (If that had been changing, details would have been in the email)
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-12, 15:50:09
Reply #21

TomG

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Oh! That was the other thing I was going to mention - the Academy videos. Next one is out next week. Releases always put these on hold as we have to focus on making tutorials for the new features to go on YT, and then we were right into the vacation period, which is why there is a longer delay than usual there. But we're getting back into the swing of those, with them top priority again and YT videos moving back to second place ;)
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-12, 22:43:36
Reply #22

britbunkley

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It is not too bad assuming that I was sent the increase in AUD dollars.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-18, 06:56:03 by britbunkley »

2024-01-13, 13:16:34
Reply #23

Salvatore CDA

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My first impression was emotional, and I saw the new prizes. I stopped my subscription. After some days, I calmed down and watched it with fresh eyes. I looked at it differently and activated my subscription again.

The increase is just a few dollars using the yearly subscription, and a library of 1000's ready-to-use assets and materials are also included. Alone this Asset LIB that grows constantly is worth the extra costs.
On the other hand, Corona Renderer in Cinema 4D and Max is the most stable combination compared to other Renderers. In conclusion, I will stay with Chaos Corona.

2024-01-13, 13:20:33
Reply #24

dj_buckley

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The increase is just a few dollars using the yearly subscription, and a library of 1000's ready-to-use assets and materials are also included. Alone this Asset LIB that grows constantly is worth the extra costs.

You're forgetting about the 100%+ increase last year.  Also it's not a few dollars.  The Premium Annual has gone up 10%

2024-01-13, 13:30:41
Reply #25

dj_buckley

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Another way to look at it - try increasing your own prices by 110% in the space of 12 months with your own clients.  See if they think it's just a few dollars.

2024-01-13, 13:48:09
Reply #26

Salvatore CDA

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Here is how I see it:

until now €418.80/year
new €454.80/year

Difference €36/year divided by 12 Months is €3 more per yearly Subscription

The monthly subscription, yes, is a huge increase

On the other hand, Corona Subscription costs are the same if Hobby or company, This is not the case in other packages

« Last Edit: 2024-01-13, 13:51:36 by Salvatore CDA »

2024-01-13, 13:53:58
Reply #27

dj_buckley

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Here is how I see it:

until now €418.80/year
new €454.80/year

difference €36/year divided by 12 Months is €3 more per yearly Subscription

The monthly subscription, yes is a huge increase

The year before that was £300 for a license + 3 render nodes.

If you want the same after February (you had to choose Premium to keep your floating licence) - that 1 license + 3 render nodes will now cost you £396 + £95 + £95 + £95 = £681

Percentage increase between £300 and £681 is 127%

I'm being conservative there too, I have no idea if the quoted prices include VAT.  And The £300 figure for the previous year was based on what I was paying for the monthly rolling sub.  It would have been even cheaper had I paid annually
« Last Edit: 2024-01-13, 14:01:18 by dj_buckley »

2024-01-13, 14:13:09
Reply #28

Salvatore CDA

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Here is how I see it:

until now €418.80/year
new €454.80/year

difference €36/year divided by 12 Months is €3 more per yearly Subscription

The monthly subscription, yes is a huge increase

The year before that was £300 for a license + 3 render nodes.

If you want the same after February (you had to choose Premium to keep your floating licence) - that 1 license + 3 render nodes will now cost you £396 + £95 + £95 + £95 = £681

Percentage increase between £300 and £681 is 127%

I'm being conservative there too, I have no idea if the quoted prices include VAT.  And The £300 figure for the previous year was based on what I was paying for the monthly rolling sub.  It would have been even cheaper had I paid annually

I see; yes, the Rendernode costs are way too high. We have the same cost issue in our Company. We have a Renderfarm of 6 PC. At home, I don't use Rendernodes, so only the Corona Render costs affect me.

2024-01-13, 14:29:01
Reply #29

dj_buckley

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It doesn't really affect me either.  I managed to keep my Render Nodes when the initial price increase came in, but I'm speaking up purely out of principle for those it does affect.  I'm also concerned about the future, so I don't want to wait until it's too late to speak up.  Are we to expect 10% price increases every year?

2024-01-13, 17:51:38
Reply #30

hurrycat

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Being a paying Corona User for years, I got to keep my Render nodes when the price increased last year by switching to a Premium subscription. This year I realized i don't need Phoenix so I decided to switch to Solo, which as we all painfully realized you could not do in the last month of your annual subscription (?). I had to contact support who cancelled my subscription for me, so I could switch to Solo and with that, gone are the Render nodes (that's what I was reffering to earlier when I talked about Chaos shady practices).

I am happy to see long-term active users commenting in this thread and I really hope this paints a good picture of the frustation we are all feeling. It's baffling to me that a rendering plugin ends up costing more than the actual program itself, if you're paying for indie.

2024-01-13, 17:54:42
Reply #31

dj_buckley

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Yup, the render nodes and the floating licence is the only reason I'm on Premium.  I would like to see a cheaper option without Cosmos/Phoenix etc.  I'm effectively paying for stuff I don't want or need.  I've literally never even opened Cosmos.  I don't mind paying annually but I do mind paying for stuff I didn't want or ask for.

2024-01-16, 12:06:11
Reply #32

hurrycat

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For anyone dissatisfied with the lack of reasoning behind the latest price increase, here is the response I got from support:

After careful consideration, we have decided to increase the price of Chaos V-Ray and Chaos Corona commercial licenses, marking the first adjustment in over 12 months. Price increases are a regular course of business, especially in an environment with relatively high inflation and rising prices from suppliers.

2024-01-16, 12:10:51
Reply #33

dj_buckley

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Lol that suggests we're lucky they haven't increased it multiple times over the last 12 months.

2024-01-16, 19:35:18
Reply #34

Peter A.

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Yes, they're indeed doing favour to us...

2024-01-16, 19:54:07
Reply #35

babumbol

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When they got aquired by chaos and soon afterwards upped the prices by 100% while bugging the licensing system to an alsmost unusable point on the c4d side, we as a company started a slow switch towards octane + a double switch from Maxon to Blender (Maxon aint fun anymore either). And guess what: It's the same green on the other side.

We'll keep the premium with it's 3 render nodes for the sake of backwards compatibility as long as it stays this way. But an upredictable pricing policy with increases of over 100% in a year is just not relatable. Who knows, when the price increases again? Maybe even next year, when they need to compensate for the loss of subscription customers?

I don't want to be at the mercy of companies like these.

2024-01-16, 20:08:06
Reply #36

dj_buckley

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I did some digging into the top dogs at Chaos.  It comes as no surprise that the very top dog is ex Autodesk. Sigh.

2024-01-17, 00:24:05
Reply #37

Jpjapers

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I agree with the sentiments here. The prices go up and yet there seems to be very little focus on major new features and more focus on giving up asset 'freebies' or software we MIGHT have a use for. The last big update that made any kind of difference to my productivity was whenever decals came to be. Aside from that it feels very much like small incremental changes or changes to potentially unnecessary things that are clearly meant to add additional value to corona such as scatter and cosmos.

2024-01-17, 01:14:57
Reply #38

dj_buckley

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The last big update that made any kind of difference to my productivity was whenever decals came to be.

Yikes, that was Corona 8, must admit, considering the next release is scheduled for May/June this year, it doesn't look very exciting at all as far as the roadmap is concerned ... New VFB skin and Cosmos/Mat Library updates.  For me the last really beneficial update was Corona 9.  With Clouds, Out of Core Textures and Pattern, but again nothing groundbreaking.  I'd call them improvements more than anything.  Clouds and Pattern already existed in VRay by that point.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-17, 01:25:16 by dj_buckley »

2024-01-17, 01:51:14
Reply #39

John.McWaters

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I would like for Chaos and Corona to start investing time into creating some sort of real time rendering solution to compete with UE and Enscape, because inevitably, that’s where the market is heading.

With Corona, we can create the best quality still images. But what if the team could use this knowledge in a real time rendering product that could avoid the current drawbacks from software like Enscape, UE, etc?

I’ve thought about making the jump to UE to see how close I could get it to a Corona rendering, but from my understanding, it doesn’t have a lot of the tools like UVW Randomizer that really make a difference for me in Corona. But if Corona could offer its toolset in a real time rendering engine, then that would be a product I’d be interested in continuing to pay for.

2024-01-17, 02:34:34
Reply #40

Tom

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Being a paying Corona User for years, I got to keep my Render nodes when the price increased last year by switching to a Premium subscription. This year I realized i don't need Phoenix so I decided to switch to Solo, which as we all painfully realized you could not do in the last month of your annual subscription (?). I had to contact support who cancelled my subscription for me, so I could switch to Solo and with that, gone are the Render nodes (that's what I was reffering to earlier when I talked about Chaos shady practices).

I am happy to see long-term active users commenting in this thread and I really hope this paints a good picture of the frustation we are all feeling. It's baffling to me that a rendering plugin ends up costing more than the actual program itself, if you're paying for indie.

So true, I'm in the exact same situation: I went for the Premium subscription just to keep my render nodes licences active, and ending up paying more for a plugin than for the host program itself is frustrating.

2024-01-17, 04:39:31
Reply #41

Basshunter

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We had to move back to V-Ray which although far from perfect, has a MUCH faster development. GPU speed is awesome and we have Vantage compatibility. Gone are the days when Corona devs really listened to the community and gave us significant releases. I guess they found a comfortable spot and decided to settle.

2024-01-17, 08:40:38
Reply #42

dj_buckley

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I would like for Chaos and Corona to start investing time into creating some sort of real time rendering solution to compete with UE and Enscape, because inevitably, that’s where the market is heading.

With Corona, we can create the best quality still images. But what if the team could use this knowledge in a real time rendering product that could avoid the current drawbacks from software like Enscape, UE, etc?

I’ve thought about making the jump to UE to see how close I could get it to a Corona rendering, but from my understanding, it doesn’t have a lot of the tools like UVW Randomizer that really make a difference for me in Corona. But if Corona could offer its toolset in a real time rendering engine, then that would be a product I’d be interested in continuing to pay for.

Enscape and Chaos are now the same thing, they merged a while back so I doubt that will happen any time soon.

2024-01-17, 21:59:17
Reply #43

Artisticpixel

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I can't even use the latest corona due to a sudden influx on NaN issues, and they had the cheek to say it must be something I am doing wrong or using something different ( only difference is using the latest version ), I have gone back to 10 as its the most stable for me now and will be looking at alternatives in the near future as the price increase with a huge increase in errors is the tipping point for me.  I guess what did we expect once it was sold to a corp.

2024-01-18, 13:25:10
Reply #44

Jpjapers

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Yikes, that was Corona 8, must admit, considering the next release is scheduled for May/June this year, it doesn't look very exciting at all as far as the roadmap is concerned ... New VFB skin and Cosmos/Mat Library updates.  For me the last really beneficial update was Corona 9.  With Clouds, Out of Core Textures and Pattern, but again nothing groundbreaking.  I'd call them improvements more than anything.  Clouds and Pattern already existed in VRay by that point.

Most of my work is interiors so clouds didnt make much difference for me personally so its sort of the push and pull of releases benefitting some more than others and i get that completely. But i remember when lightmix came to be and it was just an instant gamechanger for everybody.

2024-01-18, 13:32:16
Reply #45

dj_buckley

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The biggest gripe for me is that most of the "new features" of late, are half baked or experimental and have been for some time.  Rather than just a fully featured fully working new feature, they either don't work as epected or come with workarounds, exceptions and disclaimers.  And they never seem to make it out of that phase.  The focus of the last few releases seems to be around new users.  Experienced long time users of Max let alone Corona, don't need Power Tools or anything like that.  I can't see anyone that uses Forest Pack switching to Scatter when Forest Pack is about 10 years ahead in terms of development and isn't particularly expensive considering what it offers.  Never gonna please everyone I suppose.

I don't understand the 6 monthly release cycle anyway.  That alone has a rushed feeling about it.  Personally think the release cycle should be as follows:

Big Release - Exciting New Feature(s)
6 months later - Hotfix that fixes anything that was experimental/half baked in the Big Release
6 months later - Big Release

Rinse and repeat.

So you're getting a big release every year and then a smaller bug fixer in between that addresses ALL of the issues from the previous release.

I guess at the end of the day, for customers to be okay with price increases they need to feel like they're getting value for their money.  And of late (last few releases) it doesn't feel like that.  Higher Cost + Less Features = Sour Taste.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-18, 13:54:14 by dj_buckley »

2024-01-18, 14:09:23
Reply #46

Artisticpixel

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The biggest gripe for me is that most of the "new features" of late, are half baked or experimental and have been for some time.  Rather than just a fully featured fully working new feature, they either don't work as epected or come with workarounds, exceptions and disclaimers.  And they never seem to make it out of that phase.  The focus of the last few releases seems to be around new users.  Experienced long time users of Max let alone Corona, don't need Power Tools or anything like that.  I can't see anyone that uses Forest Pack switching to Scatter when Forest Pack is about 10 years ahead in terms of development and isn't particularly expensive considering what it offers.  Never gonna please everyone I suppose.

I don't understand the 6 monthly release cycle anyway.  That alone has a rushed feeling about it.  Personally think the release cycle should be as follows:

Big Release - Exciting New Feature(s)
6 months later - Hotfix that fixes anything that was experimental/half baked in the Big Release
6 months later - Big Release

Rinse and repeat.

So you're getting a big release every year and then a smaller bug fixer in between that addresses ALL of the issues from the previous release.

I guess at the end of the day, for customers to be okay with price increases they need to feel like they're getting value for their money.  And of late (last few releases) it doesn't feel like that.  Higher Cost + Less Features = Sour Taste.


if they gave me the option to buy a perpetual of 9 or 10 I would jump at the chance and never look back... price hikes and way more instability is adding insult to injury.

2024-01-19, 01:12:05
Reply #47

Tom

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Very interesting topic, but I'd like to hear what the Corona team thinks about it?

2024-01-19, 07:24:04
Reply #48

Freakaz

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I can't see anyone that uses Forest Pack switching to Scatter when Forest Pack is about 10 years ahead in terms of development and isn't particularly expensive considering what it offers.  Never gonna please everyone I suppose.


I actualy use both, the forest pack and chaos scatter, and scatter sometimes is faster to set up. Yet the pricing of forest pro is very fair, you pay for a product and get to keep the actual product and opt out of paying for future updates if you do not need them.
Corona price increased twice and features added in the past releases are not worth the extra money, adding additional bloatware which is not used, to justify the price increase is not fair. The only thing keeping me in Corona premium is keeping the old render nodes and floating licence. Don't even know what chaos scans and chaos player is, so paying more for mostly same features I had when paid 19,99 euro per month.

2024-01-19, 10:06:30
Reply #49

3dboomerang

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The render engines are more expensive now than the software package they're plugged into.

To all the freelancers out there:
3DStudio Max indie licence 1 person: 350€


Corona renderer for 1 person:
Corona Solo Annual: €322.80 (paid per year)
Corona Solo Monthly: 48.90€ (€586.80 paid per year)

Corona Premium Annual: Not even getting into this. Whatever this ransacking scheme is, half of these items listed "extra" should already be included in the the standard licence. This is beyond thievery.

Currently switching to UE5+ and starting to do the rendering there. Materials & Lighting are easily replaced with what that engine is offering, with free libraries and growing.

They need to stop this bullshit. Paying for a freaking node on a computer we already invested into and increasing the price non stop.

Just make the switch already because they won't budge on their prices, obviously.

2024-01-19, 12:16:35
Reply #50

piotrus3333

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Insightful read.
A suggestion, if I may: Arnold. You are already getting it with 3dsMax subscription. CPU focused like Corona. Similar speed. Much more features. Just give it a try, dip a toe.
Marcin Piotrowski
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2024-01-19, 16:01:25
Reply #51

Jpjapers

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Insightful read.
A suggestion, if I may: Arnold. You are already getting it with 3dsMax subscription. CPU focused like Corona. Similar speed. Much more features. Just give it a try, dip a toe.

Ive been doing this recently but i really really miss lightmix.

2024-01-19, 16:37:02
Reply #52

piotrus3333

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Insightful read.
A suggestion, if I may: Arnold. You are already getting it with 3dsMax subscription. CPU focused like Corona. Similar speed. Much more features. Just give it a try, dip a toe.

Ive been doing this recently but i really really miss lightmix.

there is light mixer imager. what is missing from it?
Marcin Piotrowski
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2024-01-19, 16:45:52
Reply #53

James Vella

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there is light mixer imager. what is missing from it?

Ha thats cool, I never seen that. I just found a video of it, I love how you can also solo the lights.


2024-01-19, 17:24:15
Reply #54

lupaz

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Although I don't like price increases, if good things come with them I'd be ok with it.

But, other than the tilesMap, which is saving me tons of time and it's something that Autodesk should've done a LONG time ago, the latest release (Corona 11) seems unimpressive IMO.
I'm disappointed with the bump filtering improvement. I don't notice any difference between linear and roughness modulation for, for example, a brushed metal effect.

Still, the previous versions brought corona pattern and slicer materials, which are AWESOME.
Enmesh I think it's better though as it supports overlapping and displacement AFAIK.

So yeah. Hopefully when/if Ondra comes back we will see a speed up in development.


2024-01-19, 17:53:59
Reply #55

dj_buckley

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Still, the previous versions brought corona pattern and slicer materials, which are AWESOME.
Enmesh I think it's better though as it supports overlapping and displacement AFAIK.

This is exactly what I mean about things existing elsewhere already or they're just half baked in their current form/on release.  There's a thread on here at the minute with caveats about slicer.  And as you said Enmesh exists and has better functionality.  I would be really really interested to hear someone sell Corona to me today if I was a new user.  Originally it had a tonne of stuff in it's favour as USP's, hence why so many people made the switch.  Today not so much.  I'm struggling to think of one thing that Corona offers that I can't get elsewhere.

Looking at the home page it looks like it's selling points are as follows:

Ease of Use - "Render Setup is as easy as pressing Render" - this isn't technically true - there are a tonne of caveats/workarounds sometimes in order to get the result you want.  Also I had to switch back to VRay not so long ago for one job.  That was pretty easy to use these days too.

Affordable - "We aim to keep Chaos Corona affordable and accessible to as many people as possible, without compromising on its development and features." - Ahem, please see entire thread above.

Part of an Ecosystem - "As a Corona user, you are backed by the award-winning Chaos family. Expand your capabilities with Chaos tools guaranteed to integrate smoothly with your favorite render engine." - I'm assuming they're referring to Cosmos and Phoenix here which I have zero experience with, but from what I read, Cosmos is littered with bad models and I've seen a few threads on the Phoenix forums with 'Corona compatibility' issues.  The Corona Converter is a mess and far from smooth.  No Vantage unless converting to VRay first.  So ultimately you might as well pay the little bit extra for VRay in the first place as that seems to be much more smoothly integrated with the 'ecosystem' already.

So really what is the selling point as of today?  Why would one choose Corona from the off these days?

I won't get into the fact that each new release results in something breaking from the previous release i.e. sun targets, curves in tonemapping etc etc etc


2024-01-19, 18:14:56
Reply #56

lupaz

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i think you're exaggerating.

I don't know how many resources were needed for the tilesMap, but it was done really well and did not disappoint.

2024-01-19, 18:20:02
Reply #57

dj_buckley

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i think you're exaggerating.

I don't know how many resources were needed for the tilesMap, but it was done really well and did not disappoint.

Can't see what you've quoted so not sure which bit you're referring too. But with regards to Tiles - I don't/haven't used it.  I use geometry for anything tile based, either manual or with Railclone/Floorgen, or custom made textures.  But the main point still stands - you can get by without it and it's not 'new'.  Vray has it for a while and I remember using Vizpark Walls and Tiles/Mosaic/Omni Tiles 10 years ago although not sure if that still exists
« Last Edit: 2024-01-19, 18:26:29 by dj_buckley »

2024-01-19, 18:27:07
Reply #58

lupaz

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But I don't/haven't used it.  I use geometry for anything tile based, either manual or with Railclone/Floorgen

Maybe that's where the problem is. Try using the new features. TileMap with displacement and the fact that takes multimap and mapRandomizer is a very powerful tool.

2024-01-19, 18:32:03
Reply #59

dj_buckley

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But I don't/haven't used it.  I use geometry for anything tile based, either manual or with Railclone/Floorgen

Maybe that's where the problem is. Try using the new features. TileMap with displacement and the fact that takes multimap and mapRandomizer is a very powerful tool.

I fell out with displacement a long time ago, I only use it now where absolutely necessary.  Of course I'll take a look at some point, but at the minute it's not enough to make me want to change my entire workflow.

And FWIW, I do keep tabs on the other threads such as "TilesPlayground"

2024-01-19, 21:19:23
Reply #60

CharlyRT

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Although I don't like price increases, if good things come with them I'd be ok with it.

But, other than the tilesMap, which is saving me tons of time and it's something that Autodesk should've done a LONG time ago...


You could try BerconMaps, this plugin has been for far long, Bercon Tiles has more options than CoronaTiles and could be use with BerconGradients for displacements and have interesting ressults
« Last Edit: 2024-01-19, 21:28:17 by RTstudio »

2024-01-19, 21:22:13
Reply #61

CharlyRT

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Insightful read.
A suggestion, if I may: Arnold. You are already getting it with 3dsMax subscription. CPU focused like Corona. Similar speed. Much more features. Just give it a try, dip a toe.

Wow I didnt imagine that Arnold was similar in terms on Speed, what about memory?
Does it "swallows" like Corona?

2024-01-19, 21:34:27
Reply #62

James Vella

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Wow I didnt imagine that Arnold was similar in terms on Speed, what about memory?
Does it "swallows" like Corona?

Well Arnold has CPU and GPU, not sure but please share if you test it yourself :)

2024-01-22, 06:02:27
Reply #63

JoeS

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I agree with most of the statement's. Corona has grown slowly stale in terms of development since chaos purchased it, Not surprised due to vray being the flag ship engine. Most of the updates have been hand me downs from vray, and scatter is not a feature I use since I have forest pack. The added bloatware ie scans, phoenix, cosmos etc could have been left out and kept the price down. Also tiles being a major feature of release eleven is really underwhelming since I use substance designer which is way faster and more advanced for tiles, bricks anything really.

On another not I have had an absolutely terrible experience with chaos support and am still going through a major issue that has been months.

Gone are the days a Corona update was super exciting to be apart of.

 

2024-01-22, 08:08:54
Reply #64

triget

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The price would be acceptable if they added a GPU and Toon Shader. I keep watching the development of Corona and Cycles. Unfortunately, I choose Cycles more and more often. The speed of the GPU beats the speed of Corona.... Quality is not always as important as time.

They only make minor changes and change the version number.

2024-01-22, 08:16:36
Reply #65

James Vella

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Wow I didnt imagine that Arnold was similar in terms on Speed, what about memory?

After a few tests I did over the weekend, 'speed' is certainly not how I would describe Arnold lol. Difference is night and day compared to Corona, Even rendering a simple box/teapot scene with GI on was terribly slow in Arnold both CPU/GPU. Painful to say the least.

2024-01-22, 13:51:50
Reply #66

lupaz

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I regret my words in this post below in 2021 when complaining about the same this thread is complaining about.


Vray costs $700/year for the whole ecosystem.
Corona costs $360/year for a fraction of the services and development.

I don't get it.

I don't use scatter, cosmos, corona materias, scans or anything else other than core Corona. If the price increases were for the "ecosystem", I don't think it's justified for most of professional archviz artists.

2024-01-22, 14:05:14
Reply #67

piotrus3333

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Wow I didnt imagine that Arnold was similar in terms on Speed, what about memory?

After a few tests I did over the weekend, 'speed' is certainly not how I would describe Arnold lol. Difference is night and day compared to Corona, Even rendering a simple box/teapot scene with GI on was terribly slow in Arnold both CPU/GPU. Painful to say the least.

It is quite hard to compare them. Very different engines. Corona might be faster with simple interior stills but get more complex scene, add animation and from the point where cached GI is no longer an option Arnold will show its strength. Memory wise its much more efficient.
There is also GPU option if you can make do with less features (less features make for much simpler render setup though).
Marcin Piotrowski
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2024-01-22, 14:45:23
Reply #68

James Vella

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It is quite hard to compare them. Very different engines. Corona might be faster with simple interior stills but get more complex scene, add animation and from the point where cached GI is no longer an option Arnold will show its strength. Memory wise its much more efficient.
There is also GPU option if you can make do with less features (less features make for much simpler render setup though).

Yeah I figure since its used in some quite big film productions. However since we are referring mostly to Archviz related stuff,I found it quite slow for a few test scenes. I did some basic scenes with some boxes/teapots/lighitng techniques. Downloaded a bunch of test scenes from the Arnold archive, as well as converting some Vray/Corona scenes. The conversion was actually much better than I expected however even with GPU in Arnold (I checked the limitations and adjusted accordingly) its just not even close to on par with Vray GPU.

I think its a great option since its included with 3dsmax and has quite powerful features, conversion techniques, compatibility with osl, physical, pbr, exporting/importing all pretty neat stuff but if you work in a crunch time archiz studio then without the pipeline setup for it I would say it suits hobby artists and studios setup for Arnold more-so. Otherwise the renders that I see coming out of Arnold do look absolutely amazing.

2024-01-23, 17:25:28
Reply #69

Artisticpixel

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I regret my words in this post below in 2021 when complaining about the same this thread is complaining about.


Vray costs $700/year for the whole ecosystem.
Corona costs $360/year for a fraction of the services and development.

I don't get it.

I don't use scatter, cosmos, corona materias, scans or anything else other than core Corona. If the price increases were for the "ecosystem", I don't think it's justified for most of professional archviz artists.

Agree, it seems like they are just adding gimmicks to upsell

2024-01-23, 17:31:54
Reply #70

dj_buckley

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I wouldn't say they're gimmicks.  They're good features if you need them.  The problem is a lot of us don't want or need them and didn't ask for them, but now we're forced to pay for them whether we like it or not.

2024-01-23, 18:57:04
Reply #71

ONO

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It is clearly obvious what is going on here first corona gets bought by chaos group then every amazing thing of corona gets stripped off and added into vray and lastly the implementation of ideas and development of corona gets slowed down or virtually non existent until Majority of the user base of corona can't take it any longer but to move over to Vray then Corona gets Killed off. The price increases are just to speed thing along smh.

2024-01-23, 19:01:53
Reply #72

ONO

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Because at this point Vray gets developed faster and less buggier and any supposedly new feature coming to corona already exists a year or two earlier in Vray. So the question remains why pay for Corona when Vray is the Main focus of Chaos Group while still paying the same amount for lesser features.

2024-01-23, 19:04:42
Reply #73

TomG

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It is clearly obvious what is going on here first corona gets bought by chaos group then every amazing thing of corona gets stripped off and added into vray and lastly the implementation of ideas and development of corona gets slowed down or virtually non existent until Majority of the user base of corona can't take it any longer but to move over to Vray then Corona gets Killed off. The price increases are just to speed thing along smh.

This is not what is happening - there is no slowing of Corona development, we have the same number of people in development, so that is progressing at the same speed as always, in that we are putting just as much work into every release as we always have. There are no plans for this to change. Just wanted to share that fact to avoid unnecessary speculation taking root.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-23, 19:08:08
Reply #74

ONO

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It is clearly obvious what is going on here first corona gets bought by chaos group then every amazing thing of corona gets stripped off and added into vray and lastly the implementation of ideas and development of corona gets slowed down or virtually non existent until Majority of the user base of corona can't take it any longer but to move over to Vray then Corona gets Killed off. The price increases are just to speed thing along smh.

This is not what is happening - there is no slowing of Corona development, we have the same number of people in development, so that is progressing at the same speed as always, in that we are putting just as much work into every release as we always have. There are no plans for this to change. Just wanted to share that fact to avoid unnecessary speculation taking root.
You say this but time will tell
« Last Edit: 2024-01-23, 19:13:00 by ONO »

2024-01-23, 19:25:02
Reply #75

Basshunter

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I have to agree on almost everything ONO says.

V-Ray has added all Corona features and it's development is wayyyy faster. Every small new feature comes to V-Ray first. Even Scatter has been developed faster for V-Ray! Corona can't add even a single "edge trimming" button while V-Ray added long time ago. And all Corona developers could say when I pointed this out was "well, I guess V-Ray team is faster".

Same goes for some bugs I posted many months ago to which I have got answers like "this is a 3ds Max problem, not the renderer". Then after pointing out how V-Ray had managed to solved the same issues instead of blaming Max, all we get is a "well, we'll need to check what V-Ray team have done there". But the issue is never addressed.

Not sure if Chaos final goal is to kill Corona to be honest, but that's probably what will end up happening.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-23, 19:34:14 by Basshunter »

2024-01-23, 19:34:29
Reply #76

Basshunter

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Also, what's the point of asking the community about the features we want if at the end of the day you won't listen?

2024-01-23, 19:42:30
Reply #77

TomG

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We do listen, but deciding what to work on next is a a tricky art - which is why we created this article to cover all the things that go into our decision-making on what to work on next:
https://blog.corona-renderer.com/behind-the-scenes-the-corona-renderer-development-process/

The result of course is never perfect, as everyone always has different needs and preferences for what they would like to see in the next version, but we do the best we can. No user request ever gets ignored, it's always considered when we make our decisions.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-23, 19:51:24
Reply #78

dj_buckley

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It is clearly obvious what is going on here first corona gets bought by chaos group then every amazing thing of corona gets stripped off and added into vray and lastly the implementation of ideas and development of corona gets slowed down or virtually non existent until Majority of the user base of corona can't take it any longer but to move over to Vray then Corona gets Killed off. The price increases are just to speed thing along smh.

This is not what is happening - there is no slowing of Corona development, we have the same number of people in development, so that is progressing at the same speed as always, in that we are putting just as much work into every release as we always have. There are no plans for this to change. Just wanted to share that fact to avoid unnecessary speculation taking root.

Appreciate you jumping in here Tom and representing Corona.  But what ONO has said, is exactly how it currently feels a looks like to us as end users.

I'll ask again.  What is Corona's USP these days?  What was the last major unique feature that came to Corona first?

2024-01-23, 20:02:15
Reply #79

lupaz

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Hi Tom,

I respect the Corona devs and I'm very happy with many of the new features.
However, when comparing to vray, I agree that it looks like Chaos gives way more priority to it than Corona.

Look at these comments from the devs in these two cases below. Two months of development to improve corona pattern is too much? Also, why does vray support displacement and overlapping in enmesh but it would be too much work to develop it for Corona?

Regarding Corona pattern:
If it will take almost a complete overhaul of pattern to have this functionality (given that there are workaround and also Max native tools for this) and also take 2 month, then personally I don't like it.
My bright note on this is that VRayEnmesh actually supports overlapping geometry and works a bit more like scatter than CoronaPattern. So maybe there is a quick fix for this, I am not quite sure.

Regarding displacement in corona pattern:
It is a known limitation for pattern.
You can see a related discussion with this link:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=37437.msg203653#msg203653

Nevertheless, we have this reported and will update in case of any news.

(Internal ID=1280225493)

2024-01-23, 20:07:59
Reply #80

TomG

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The USP remains as always, our focus on absolute realism for archviz rather than being a general render engine, with a streamlining of the UI and options based on that to make things easier and more intuitive to use for that market. Now I can't get into major features first really, as there is some debate on what counts as a major feature it seems :) For instance the tile map is ours first, as are other things like improved DOF for highlights, just off the top of my head without digging, but we've seen some takes here that the tile map is not a "major feature".

We'll see what we do e.g. with the VFB 2 in 12 as development progresses.

Anyway, we are listening to the comments here on features and recent releases too, just so you know you are being heard and we are considering all that going forward (along with the usual "Feature Requests" section).
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-23, 20:11:11
Reply #81

lupaz

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The USP remains as always, our focus on absolute realism for archviz rather than being a general render engine, with a streamlining of the UI and options based on that to make things easier and more intuitive to use for that market. Now I can't get into major features first really, as there is some debate on what counts as a major feature it seems :) For instance the tile map is ours first, as are other things like improved DOF for highlights, just off the top of my head without digging, but we've seen some takes here that the tile map is not a "major feature".

We'll see what we do e.g. with the VFB 2 in 12 as development progresses.

Anyway, we are listening to the comments here on features and recent releases too, just so you know you are being heard and we are considering all that going forward (along with the usual "Feature Requests" section).
Thank you.
BTW, and I'm repeating myself, tile map is certainly a major feature IMO and I'm using it for many things flawlessly.

2024-01-23, 20:29:29
Reply #82

TomG

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Glad to hear! And of course the value it brings will vary from person to person, so I understand if some did not find it "major" - the feedback is good to know, on who found it useful, and who did not, and what things people would like to see from it in the future too or as compared to other potential tiling solutions.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2024-01-23, 20:51:46
Reply #83

dj_buckley

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But we've seen some takes here that the tile map is not a "major feature".

As I've already admitted, I haven't used it so I couldn't say, but I create a lot of scenes involving tiles/bricks etc and haven't ever felt a need for a dedicated tiles map beyond what already exists with 3ds max tiles, bercon, railclone, floor generator etc etc.  That might change if I get a chance to test drive it.  But I mean in the same sense that I've never used Corona Scatter because I'm so familiar with and have been using Forest Pack for years.

2024-01-23, 20:55:43
Reply #84

dj_buckley

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as are other things like improved DOF for highlights

Also I was referring to non "experimental" ones ;)

2024-01-24, 00:23:21
Reply #85

Tom

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Anyway, we are listening to the comments here on features and recent releases too, just so you know you are being heard and we are considering all that going forward (along with the usual "Feature Requests" section).

Ahem ... Corona Toon has been asked for 4 years. Am I wrong?

2024-01-24, 01:03:05
Reply #86

TomG

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Requests for Toon have popped up over the years, for sure; however when compared to our USP mentioned earlier about photorealism for archviz - toon is not realism, and has a more limited use in archviz, which affects it's ranking in priority. I know for some Toon is really important, but in our assessment when you look at archviz projects published anywhere from Behance to CG Architect to Artstation, very few use such a shader. Again, this is just to give an insight in to how we assess things in terms of priority, not to say that someone wanting a toon shader is wrong - just that we have to consider that request inside of a bigger, particular picture.

This is different for V-Ray of course as it is very much a general purpose engine that gets used for all sorts of things, and Toon is much more widely used in that regard. Naturally those who request Toon will see it's priority differently, and naturally it would sound like they have projects and work where it would be a fit else they wouldn't request it, but overall we've felt that other things take the lead in terms of the target market and use of Corona - so the request isn't ignored, just that is how we've assessed it so far when we choose what to work on for the next release. Sorry to those who are disappointed at not having such a shader yet, of course.
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2024-01-24, 01:07:02
Reply #87

TomG

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(just to add, that is the unfortunate truth - listening and hearing requests doesn't mean they will get done; it means we will be aware of them and will consider them. Believe me, we would love to do everything requested, but unfortunately we always have to pick and choose as dev time is limited. It's always a difficult art and some folks will always disagree with the decision. But we will keep doing our best!)
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2024-01-24, 01:15:07
Reply #88

Basshunter

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Requests for Toon have popped up over the years, for sure; however when compared to our USP mentioned earlier about photorealism for archviz - toon is not realism, and has a more limited use in archviz, which affects it's ranking in priority. I know for some Toon is really important, but in our assessment when you look at archviz projects published anywhere from Behance to CG Architect to Artstation, very few use such a shader. Again, this is just to give an insight in to how we assess things in terms of priority, not to say that someone wanting a toon shader is wrong - just that we have to consider that request inside of a bigger, particular picture.

This is different for V-Ray of course as it is very much a general purpose engine that gets used for all sorts of things, and Toon is much more widely used in that regard. Naturally those who request Toon will see it's priority differently, and naturally it would sound like they have projects and work where it would be a fit else they wouldn't request it, but overall we've felt that other things take the lead in terms of the target market and use of Corona - so the request isn't ignored, just that is how we've assessed it so far when we choose what to work on for the next release. Sorry to those who are disappointed at not having such a shader yet, of course.

What about Vantage support then? That's the number one archviz requested feature. What about the improvements in chaos scatter which has been added in V-Ray long time ago but not in Corona? What about ALL the small features that would make our work easier and we never see in Corona but we do in V-Ray. We don't even have a SIMPLE infinite plane which has been requested many times! Is that not needed in Archviz? What about hybrid CPU+GPU rendering which V-Ray has? Not needed for archiviz either?

2024-01-24, 01:41:43
Reply #89

dj_buckley

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Requests for Toon have popped up over the years, for sure; however when compared to our USP mentioned earlier about photorealism for archviz - toon is not realism, and has a more limited use in archviz, which affects it's ranking in priority. I know for some Toon is really important, but in our assessment when you look at archviz projects published anywhere from Behance to CG Architect to Artstation, very few use such a shader. Again, this is just to give an insight in to how we assess things in terms of priority, not to say that someone wanting a toon shader is wrong - just that we have to consider that request inside of a bigger, particular picture.

This is different for V-Ray of course as it is very much a general purpose engine that gets used for all sorts of things, and Toon is much more widely used in that regard. Naturally those who request Toon will see it's priority differently, and naturally it would sound like they have projects and work where it would be a fit else they wouldn't request it, but overall we've felt that other things take the lead in terms of the target market and use of Corona - so the request isn't ignored, just that is how we've assessed it so far when we choose what to work on for the next release. Sorry to those who are disappointed at not having such a shader yet, of course.

Just because you don't see toon on Behance doesn't mean it isn't used.  Why would anyone show their previz workflow on a platform design to show your shiny final images?

I don't really understand the response much either.  How did Power Tools rank so highly with regards to arch Viz realism?

2024-01-24, 01:42:56
Reply #90

TomG

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GPU is not happening for Corona, it would take an entire re-write of the code (which would mean suspending development of anything else for a year or more), have drawbacks in the final quality, etc. We have always held to that - people would expect GPU to be identical to Corona, and it would not be, and not as suited for what people use Corona for (the ultimate in realism).

Some level of Vantage support is planned for Corona 12, we'll know more as we develop it :) This hopefully will be the solution for those who want some GPU rendering of their scenes.

Scatter is shared between the two, I am not aware of any core differences in functionality (you can let me know which things you mean specifically of course, please do) other than our quick implementation of Edge Trimming which V-Ray improved upon via checkbox when they implemented it later. We've already swapped to checkbox on internal builds, so you'll see it in a daily soon. Overall though, Scatter is Scatter, it's the same core, so there should be no major features different in one implementation than the other.

Infinite Plane would be nice, not sure if there is something about Corona technically that makes this something hard to implement compared to V-Ray. I'll check in with the devs :)
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
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2024-01-24, 01:45:18
Reply #91

TomG

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Power Tools did not rank highly - it was in fact written and near complete some years ago, and we just took the small amount of time to polish and QA it and release it. That was better than having it sat there unused and it could prove useful to some.

As I mention, some folks will have a different ranking of how useful they think Toon is, it is not something that has so far been weighed high enough over other features to be developed for a release.
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2024-01-24, 01:49:49
Reply #92

dj_buckley

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Power Tools did not rank highly - it was in fact written and near complete some years ago, and we just took the small amount of time to polish and QA it and release it. That was better than having it sat there unused and it could prove useful to some.

As I mention, some folks will have a different ranking of how useful they think Toon is, it is not something that has so far been weighed high enough over other features to be developed for a release.

So what was the intention and reasoning behind the implementation of Corona Wires map?

Also I think when most people refer to 'toon' they don't actually want to create 'toons' in terms of realism.  They just want a better CoronaWires map for reasons highlighted in the numerous threads about it.  Hence my excitement and subsequent disappointment about the 'Edge Map'

2024-01-24, 01:51:17
Reply #93

lupaz

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What about ALL the small features that would make our work easier and we never see in Corona but we do in V-Ray.

Like what?



Some level of Vantage support is planned for Corona 12
This makes me sad. It sounds like a major undertaking that will consume tons of resources for the foreseeable future, leaving core features behind.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-24, 01:56:32 by lupaz »

2024-01-24, 02:04:12
Reply #94

TomG

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Shouldn't do, for example the VFB 2 is planned for Corona 12 too, and that is a major undertaking to a core feature :)
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2024-01-24, 02:22:01
Reply #95

Tom

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Just because you don't see toon on Behance doesn't mean it isn't used.  Why would anyone show their previz workflow on a platform design to show your shiny final images?

+1.

100% of my work is doing photorealistic archiviz, and yet ALL my projects start with camera angles using a Corona Toon effect, an effect that doesn't exist and that I have to manage as best as I can using other techniques. So, as said above, this is not because this effect is not showcased on social media that there is no need for it. I'm sure pretty much all artists in the archviz industry would love to have such a feature.

2024-01-24, 10:24:46
Reply #96

matteosperi

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Hi;
I read the very interesting comments.

I am also very disappointed with the corona development and the price increase, but:

1- first I used octane render (gpu) and then vray (gpu); I switched to Corona for two reasons:
stability guaranteed by the CPU, lower cost (GPU makes sense if you always buy the latest GPU model every year, at most two and it is very expensive:
to have a serious workflow you need at least two GPUs ); it makes no sense to ask for corona gpu.

2- in vay frame buffer there is the direct cryptomatte option; I don't understand why it isn't integrated into corona render.
It is a very useful solution for us users and I hope it will be developed.
M.

2024-01-24, 13:43:00
Reply #97

piotrus3333

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I would suggest to take a step back for a moment (mid 2010's I guess if you value precision).
Archviz crowd fell in love with Corona exactly for the reason of it having less features than VRay. It was way more streamlined, focused on specific needs. Good product, good value.

A decade passed.
Everything has evolved and improved: Vray, Corona. Even 3dsMax. VRay Premium yearly sub with more features is 50% more expensive than Corona's. I would say: a good deal. Quite Fair.
If you do not need all the Premium "gimmicks" but would happily enjoy some of VRay's features: VRay Solo being priced exactly as Corona Premium might be the option for you. Again: fair deal.

Please accept some facts before complaining:
+ VRay is the flagship product and it will always get more attention: you are paying less for less. Fair deal.
+ Corona would have never got to its current state if it stayed independent. It would be a few years behind. Because of the support from Chaos the development progress is still there, it is naturally slower now, as was stated here many times: all the easy features had been already implemented and new stuff takes more and more resources, not less.
+ You are a consumer, last decade spoiled you with so many choices: if you're not content with something - shop around. Vote with your wallet as this is pretty much the only vote you have in the free market.
+ And the most important one: You as a user changed as well. Corona might have been the right choice for you in 2014 but in 2024 your needs are probably much different.


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2024-01-24, 13:52:33
Reply #98

dj_buckley

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I would suggest to take a step back for a moment (mid 2010's I guess if you value precision).
Archviz crowd fell in love with Corona exactly for the reason of it having less features than VRay.
If you do not need all the Premium "gimmicks" but would happily enjoy some of VRay's features: VRay Solo being priced exactly as Corona Premium might be the option for you. Again: fair deal.

We also fell in love with it because it was cost effective and independent and development was fast etc etc

With regards the 'Solo' option - this is the whole point, we would then lose render nodes and floating licence, so it becomes much more expensive than Premium if you want those features back ...

A lot of us indie's have more than one PC that we use for DR or with Pulze etc so the render nodes that we got as part of our monthly subs back in the day are essential.  Also, as an indie, by nature you can work from anywhere, it's great having Corona installed on your main PC, but then having a floating licence so you can also pick up your laptop and go work from wherever whenever.  You lose both of these things with Solo.  So you're forced to take the Premium option because it's cheaper than Solo + Render node + Render node etc, but then you're paying for premium and the price of premium includes Cosmos and all that Jazz. 

There's no middle ground.  We need a middle option for Floating Licence plus Render Nodes minus Cosmos, Phoenix etc etc.  Call it Solo Plus or whatever you want.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-24, 13:58:33 by dj_buckley »

2024-01-24, 14:00:06
Reply #99

dj_buckley

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I+ VRay is the flagship product and it will always get more attention: you are paying less for less. Fair deal.

What a tag line, Corona wouldn't have existed at all if this was the case from the start imo

2024-01-24, 14:04:43
Reply #100

LukaK

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+ 100 for Toon effect ... not the whole shader, just lines rendering would be more than enough. Visible, invisible, different line-types, line colours etc. Something like FinalToon/Illustrate! or even more simple. Vector output is a plus, but not necessary.
As an architect/interior designer/3D guy this would come sooo handy countless of times. Not just for strict archvis, but also as an addition for shop drawings of furniture for example.

Common guys, this was on Trello board for ages (now removed???) - let's do this! :)

2024-01-24, 14:30:00
Reply #101

piotrus3333

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With regards the 'Solo' option - this is the whole point, we would then lose render nodes and floating licence, so it becomes much more expensive than Premium if you want those features back ...

A lot of us indie's have more than one PC that we use for DR or with Pulze etc so the render nodes that we got as part of our monthly subs back in the day are essential.  Also, as an indie, by nature you can work from anywhere, it's great having Corona installed on your main PC, but then having a floating licence so you can also pick up your laptop and go work from wherever whenever.  You lose both of these things with Solo.  So you're forced to take the Premium option because it's cheaper than Solo + Render node + Render node etc, but then you're paying for premium and the price of premium includes Cosmos and all that Jazz. 

There's no middle ground.  We need a middle option for Floating Licence plus Render Nodes minus Cosmos, Phoenix etc etc.  Call it Solo Plus or whatever you want.

Floating licence - you are right - nice thing to have, so: you get some, you loose some. I would consider pricing from Chaos being quite reasonable considering its position within the market. Look at Redshift and Octane (bit cheaper) - priced in relation to Corona exactly the same as Corona is to VRay (VRay being 50% more expensive; sure, both are GPU but GPU is just the right choice for small operations for some years now - licences cost vs hardware scaling-up cost)

And be mindful that those legacy deals with 3 render nodes will not last forever. Nothing does. Just business, nothing personal.
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2024-01-24, 14:37:37
Reply #102

dj_buckley

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And be mindful that those legacy deals with 3 render nodes will not last forever. Nothing does. Just business, nothing personal.

Appreciate that but if we go back to my original question - this was all part of why a lot of us went with Corona in the first place.  Taking things like that away contirbute to taking away Coronas edge over the competition.  My original question that started the thread was basically "Why am I using Corona these days and not something else?"

I was looking for USP's and so far nobody has been able to give me one really.

I don't know anyone that's happy with paying more for less.  Where else does that happen in the world?  I can't think of anything that I pay for currently that has increased the price and at the same time taken benefits away.  It's akin to my phone service provider telling me the price is going up but at the same time telling me I'll be losing my data limit, but I can buy it back as an addon if I want.  You'd switch providers immediately or I would anyway.

2024-01-24, 15:01:47
Reply #103

piotrus3333

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If I remember correctly Corona's subscription started from 20/month. I do not recall the version number but I'm sure you wouldn't trade current Corona for the old one to save 10/month. You are getting more than you used to get. You might not like the things you are getting (Cosmos) but the value is there. Check car prices in Europe from the year Corona introduced subscription model to get some ideas about things getting expensive.

Regarding the USP? It is simply not there for you anymore most likely. But also look around and, if possible, show us a better deal from Chaos' competitors.
Marcin Piotrowski
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2024-01-24, 15:06:43
Reply #104

Ink Visual

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Some level of Vantage support is planned for Corona 12
This makes me sad. It sounds like a major undertaking that will consume tons of resources for the foreseeable future, leaving core features behind.

This on the other hand makes ME very happy. I wasn't really expecting Corona Team taking Vantage support too seriously but I am positively surprised some action is taken towards building grounds for it.

To add to the general topic though, in terms of price increase I am mostly unhappy about having to pay for products I never wanted to use or use sporadically (Phoenix, Chaos Player etc).
Only reason I pay for premium is the floating license. Otherwise I am mostly satisfied with Corona Developement.

2024-01-24, 15:12:42
Reply #105

dj_buckley

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If I remember correctly Corona's subscription started from 20/month. I do not recall the version number but I'm sure you wouldn't trade current Corona for the old one to save 10/month. You are getting more than you used to get. You might not like the things you are getting (Cosmos) but the value is there. Check car prices in Europe from the year Corona introduced subscription model to get some ideas about things getting expensive.

Regarding the USP? It is simply not there for you anymore most likely. But also look around and, if possible, show us a better deal from Chaos' competitors.

I get what you're saying but that £20 a month is what paid for the Corona we have today.  It funded development so it's not as simple as comparing the two like for like in that way.  And it really isn't £10 more.  The maths/increases have been explained multiple times over.  For some it's close to 1000% more than it was back then.

The other way to look at it is, with increased prices today, you'd expect more groundbreaking features and faster development, as more money is being injected into it in with the higher prices in theory.  But that doesn't seem to be the case.  As you said, we're literally paying more less, I'd even settle with paying more for the same, but the expectation naturally would be paying more for more.

2024-01-24, 15:26:22
Reply #106

RecentSpacesSam

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As Tom mentioned there's a lot of different users with many different requests/priorities so perhaps it would be beneficial for the Corona team to archive the old "most requested features" thread (now almost 12 years old) and start the polls fresh to find out what the majority of users would find beneficial in their modern workflow?

With regards to development feeling like it's slowed, I imagine it's more a case of the product maturing and the shiny "big features" are already in place. A few years ago I remember seeing FStorm users getting excited about something like a masking render element - something basic that many other renderers already had.

2024-01-24, 15:34:49
Reply #107

lupaz

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+ VRay is the flagship product and it will always get more attention: you are paying less for less. Fair deal.

As Tom mentioned there's a lot of different users with many different requests/priorities so perhaps it would be beneficial for the Corona team to archive the old "most requested features" thread (now almost 12 years old) and start the polls fresh to find out what the majority of users would find beneficial in their modern workflow?

With regards to development feeling like it's slowed, I imagine it's more a case of the product maturing and the shiny "big features" are already in place. A few years ago I remember seeing FStorm users getting excited about something like a masking render element - something basic that many other renderers already had.

Also we shouldn't complain about Vray having more development without knowing how big its user base is compared to Corona's.

Note: By "new features" I always meant "new features" and/or improve existing ones.

Resetting the "most requested features" ranking would be nice.

Update: It would be nice if Scatter, cosmos, nodes, Vantage, library, etc is all sold as addons to the core Corona. I'm assuming it's not so good for business, but it would be nice I think.

2024-01-24, 15:43:15
Reply #108

lupaz

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Please accept some facts before complaining:

Does this explain that there's sill not a button to open CXR in the VFB?

2024-01-24, 15:50:28
Reply #109

romullus

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The most wanted features topic is old, but the poll itself is getting reset after most major releases, so the votes reflect most recent requests.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2024-01-24, 15:53:19
Reply #110

lupaz

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The most wanted features topic is old, but the poll itself is getting reset after most major releases, so the votes reflect most recent requests.
Tiles map is still there...

But also, it's very short. There are improvements that could be done in many existing features that are not shown on the list.

2024-01-24, 16:10:48
Reply #111

romullus

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I would argue that the list is actually very long - if the devs would start implementing every feature from it one by one, it would probably take 3-5 years to complete. Of course there are many requests that didn't make to the list and that's why there are comments section. Occasionally the team takes most discussed feature from the topic and puts it on the poll.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2024-01-24, 16:12:17
Reply #112

jasond

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The USP remains as always, our focus on absolute realism for archviz rather than being a general render engine

Please keep in mind that you have customers that are not using Corona strictly for archviz. While those users are clearly a major percentage of your user-base, please don't alienate those that aren't. We use it for animations of heavy machinery and most certainly use non-realistic features like the slicer that was introduced after years of requesting it and now the toon shader that people have mentioned to make stylized outlines.

2024-01-24, 17:08:03
Reply #113

lupaz

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I would argue that the list is actually very long
My impression is that Chaos may get the wrong impression of what's wanted just because everyone use all 3 votes in things they might not be super duper exited about.
If the list was larger the margin of error may be smaller.
IDK. Just my 2 cents.

2024-01-24, 17:30:27
Reply #114

Artisticpixel

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If I remember correctly Corona's subscription started from 20/month. I do not recall the version number but I'm sure you wouldn't trade current Corona for the old one to save 10/month. You are getting more than you used to get. You might not like the things you are getting (Cosmos) but the value is there. Check car prices in Europe from the year Corona introduced subscription model to get some ideas about things getting expensive.

Regarding the USP? It is simply not there for you anymore most likely. But also look around and, if possible, show us a better deal from Chaos' competitors.

More doesn't mean better, I am creating as good a visual with 10 as I did with 7. And now because of the bloatware added onto 11 I am getting so many errors it is unusable in its current state, and having to swallow the price for it. Every time anyone tinkers with and adds to code of a program it creates the possibility of Nth amount of issues.
« Last Edit: 2024-01-24, 17:38:24 by Artisticpixel »

2024-01-24, 17:39:34
Reply #115

dj_buckley

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Every time anyone tinkers with and adds to code of a program it creates the possibility of Nth amount of issues.

This is what I was talking about.  Last few releases have resulted in something breaking from the previous release, that was originally working absolutely fine.