Author Topic: 3ds Max Corona support Synced Workflow?  (Read 537 times)

2022-06-07, 21:05:05

haueryou26

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Hey guys,

Im new to Corona and wanted to know if 3ds Max and Corona support a synced workflow? I spent the last few hours trying to figure this out and still no luck. If anyone can provide guidance on how to author normal maps that work with Corona it would be greatly appreciated.

Images attached show how a cube renders that has "Correctly" setup normals and shaders. The second image shows what happens if you link the same asset to Corona using Corona shader and a Corona normal converter. Also linked is a working file that has the repro case.

Normals are Using MikkTspace and Per Pixel Calculations. Mesh is triangulated and should prove that vanilla 3ds Max processes this asset correctly


Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-Stephen Hauer

2022-06-07, 21:30:47
Reply #1

romullus

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Hi,

I think Corona uses 3ds Max and not MikkT space. If you have an option to convert or re-bake your normal texture to 3ds max space and test if that works, it would be nice if you could report back your findings.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2022-06-07, 23:23:21
Reply #2

haueryou26

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NP, Let me give that a try and let you know how it works

2022-06-08, 00:06:50
Reply #3

haueryou26

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Looks like 3ds Max space might be the only thing supported currently. Are there any plans to update corona to use MikkTspace? This is the industry standard and it would be amazing if this was supported!

For others: If you want Tangent space normals from HP asset to LP you appear to have to rip them in 3ds Max. I tried to get Designer and Painter working but it appears these texturing applications only support MikkTspace

-Stephen

http://www.mikktspace.com/
« Last Edit: 2022-06-08, 00:18:56 by haueryou26 »

2022-06-08, 09:00:29
Reply #4

romullus

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I don't think there was a single request to support different normal spaces, so you may want to change that and fill your request in this board: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?board=5.0

Thing is that Corona is geared mostly towards archviz. Issues from unsynced workflow are extremely rare here, so most people are simply unaware about the issue.
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2022-06-08, 09:04:28
Reply #5

romullus

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For others: If you want Tangent space normals from HP asset to LP you appear to have to rip them in 3ds Max. I tried to get Designer and Painter working but it appears these texturing applications only support MikkTspace

You can convert normal textures to different space with Handplane (don't confuse with Handplane Baker).
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2022-06-08, 15:51:32
Reply #6

haueryou26

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I just tried out handplane and no dice.

Thanks for the feedback Romullus. You are correct, I was introduced to a synced workflow and how it empowers artists while working on Halo 4 and 5. So Its just second nature at this point to assume most 3d applications support this industry standard, normal map format.  I think the goal of most people that want to use MikkTspace is for dual purpose pipelines. The dream is that you can create one set of content and have it render "Correctly" in your modeling package and real-time engine. I know MegaScans uses MikkTspace for all there content and other companies are starting to follow suit.

It would be amazing if Corona supported this feature. However I know all companies need to prioritize there goals differently. As for me, my main goal is to be able to use as much content as possible from all these amazing sites and have it work in any application.

MikkT is Supported and used by the following
-Blender
-3d Max
-Maya
-MegaScans
-Unity
-Unreal
-Substance Painter
-Substance Designer
-and more...

One can dream!!!!

2022-06-08, 19:00:52
Reply #7

romullus

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AFAIK, at the time when Corona normal node was created, 3ds Max itself didn't support Mikkt normal tangent space and later on, nobody ever complained about something like that, so there was no pressure to add missing features.

Moving this topic to resolved bug board, since i saw you have created new topic in feature request board.
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2022-06-09, 04:14:09
Reply #8

haueryou26

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Sounds good, with any luck this feature will be added soon.

-Stephen

2022-06-13, 20:06:45
Reply #9

romullus

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Looks like 3ds Max space might be the only thing supported currently.

Did you manage to get completely artefact free render from Corona with normal map converted to 3ds Max space? Perhaps you did try to compare it with the output from another renderer within 3ds Max? I'm asking this because i stumbled upon the model which does not render cleanly in Corona, despite the normal map being baked in correct (3ds Max) space. I don't have any other decent renderer to compare with, but it seems that there's no issue with how the model looks in viewport (with realistic material preview mode) and also it renders just fine with scanline and mental ray. I think your initial report might have been correct - Corona indeed does not support synced workflow. IMHO this is pretty serious issue.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2022-06-14, 15:12:43
Reply #10

haueryou26

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@romulus
Converting the normal map didnt work. The only way I was able to get a normal map that actually worked with Corona was doing the following
-Set 3ds Max to Normal mode 3ds Max
-Bake normals using scanline from High poly model to low poly model
-Assign normals to Corona shader to get nearly artifact free normals

So technically you can have a synced workflow if you have access to the High Poly asset and can rebake.  This solution however does mean users will not be able to use normals created in any external 3d application.

Note: Not having a synced workflow; aka a workflow where the math that is being used to encode the normals is calculated the same way by the renderer, will result in visual artifacts. However the moment users embrace a  synced workflow, modeling becomes easier, textures are cleaner and you are able to use that asset in many different renderers.

As for test currently the synced workflow I found for Corona isnt supported by other renderers. Vray uses Mikk Tspace along with Scanline. Im currently researching a few other renders to verify

2022-06-14, 16:11:38
Reply #11

romullus

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Thanks for getting back! So you've baked normals in 3ds Max? I will try this option and will see if it helps. I baked my normal map in Marmoset Toolbag, which lets you to choose which normal space to use and although i baked in 3ds Max space, Corona still renders with some artefacts.

As for test currently the synced workflow I found for Corona isnt supported by other renderers. Vray uses Mikk Tspace along with Scanline. Im currently researching a few other renders to verify

That's interesting. Curious to know if Vray supports MikkT only, or it respects whatever space is set in 3ds Max's settings? Too bad i can't test it myself - i use older max which doesn't support MikkT and i don't have access to Vray. Anyway, it would be greatly appreciated if Corona would spport MikkT too, since it's much more popular than other normal spaces.
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2022-06-14, 20:54:41
Reply #12

haueryou26

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@romullus

Here is a video talking about 3ds Max settings you have to have set if you want an almost synced workflow
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1a2xvBLl8sIi1g9Tnu1BTTy-ema9RRv1q?usp=sharing

2022-06-14, 22:30:41
Reply #13

romullus

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Thanks for the video, but i'm quite familiar with texture baking and stuff. I haven't had a chance to test how this would work on my model yet, but i will report back if baking in 3ds Max will improve situation or not.
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2022-06-23, 09:38:21
Reply #14

maru

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