Author Topic: Daily Builds 1.0 - 1.4  (Read 170876 times)

2016-03-26, 17:12:41
Reply #1080

denisgo22

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it's problem with ALL my projects, that  i  rendered with previous Daily
Builds without any error's///
Besides, I rendered the same scene with
previous Daily Build from 2016/03/12 with Sample Error 20.9%
and everything was works fine and DR was works correctly///
And now i roll back to 2016/03/12 Daily build///
« Last Edit: 2016-03-26, 23:06:28 by denisgo22 »

2016-03-27, 04:45:24
Reply #1081

ihabkal

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it's problem with ALL my projects, that  i  rendered with previous Daily
Builds without any error's///
Besides, I rendered the same scene with
previous Daily Build from 2016/03/12 with Sample Error 20.9%
and everything was works fine and DR was works correctly///
And now i roll back to 2016/03/12 Daily build///


I did some testing and I confirm the same happening here the DR is no longer working, and is giving the same noise problems when the denoising was introduced. By the way denoising is great, does it work on animations as well or will there be flickering?
Corona is getting better and better and 3dworld just had an article about it used by a major 3d studio.

2016-03-27, 11:07:50
Reply #1082

snakebox

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Demonising works great in animation too, just make sure your UHD cache is set to animation, default is stills.

2016-03-27, 13:08:00
Reply #1083

Ludvik Koutny

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Making noise patter static could also help a great deal when denoising animation.

2016-03-28, 07:21:27
Reply #1084

ihabkal

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thanks, this will save many hours or even days of rendering animations :)

2016-03-28, 09:54:55
Reply #1085

snakebox

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Making noise patter static could also help a great deal when denoising animation.

I have never actually fully undestood.. does corona do best with static noise? you make it sound like it, but I know some 3rd party denoiser tools needs the noise to not be static. Just curious?

2016-03-28, 11:46:57
Reply #1086

Ondra

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Corona denoiser is not temporal, so it works best with static noise. If we happen to change it in the future, we would add a warning telling you to disable static noise if you use it.
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2016-03-28, 11:55:54
Reply #1087

juang3d

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Interesting, why did you decided to make it not temporal? So it could work better with single frame renders?
Could it be better for animation if it was temporal?

Cheers!

2016-03-28, 12:06:57
Reply #1088

Ondra

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making it temporal is much more complicated, plus there are the problems such as re-rendering only single frame in an animation, etc. We are hoping it will work as it is. If not, we will look into temporal version
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2016-03-28, 14:00:34
Reply #1089

snakebox

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making it temporal is much more complicated, plus there are the problems such as re-rendering only single frame in an animation, etc. We are hoping it will work as it is. If not, we will look into temporal version

With animation UHD it works like a dream right now.. dont change! if anything just make it faster :D

2016-03-28, 15:54:12
Reply #1090

alexyork

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Ondra, is there any reason we should *not* enable static noise when rendering animation with denoising also enabled? We're currently rendering a full animation like this but using standard temporal noise. Results look great and the render-time saving is simply massive... in some cases it seems to be cutting our render times by about 60%..... well, this is combined with adaptive, which has also helped hugely. But if we swap over to static noise might we expect better results?
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2016-03-28, 16:22:18
Reply #1091

Ludvik Koutny

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Ondra, is there any reason we should *not* enable static noise when rendering animation with denoising also enabled? We're currently rendering a full animation like this but using standard temporal noise. Results look great and the render-time saving is simply massive... in some cases it seems to be cutting our render times by about 60%..... well, this is combined with adaptive, which has also helped hugely. But if we swap over to static noise might we expect better results?

If you denoise quite noisy output, let's say more than 10% noise threshold, then you may see some sort of flickering or shimmering on your surface, because after all, denoiser just blurs the noise. If you make the noise pattern static, then you will likely be able to denoise even quite undercooked renders without any flickering, where as if you denoise undercooked renders with moving noise pattern, then you may get that flicker.

Basically, there are two reasons to use temporal noise:

1, Postprocessing denoisers can then identify what is noise and separate it from detail that's supposed to be in the scene. If the noise is static, they can not, they will think it's some lens or surface feature.

2, If you intend to render output that's not too clean and do not intend to denoise, then having static pattern enabled could result in dirty lens syndrome, seeing noise pattern sliding across the image. That is often undesired.

There are also quite a few reasons to use static noise pattern:

1, If you use Corona's denoiser, you it is less likely you will see flickering

2, If you intend to render very clean animation. Under certain noise level value, static noise is indistinguishable by naked eye, where as temporal noise is still visible. So if you know your output will be quite clean, making noise static will make it appear even cleaner.

3, If you are rendering animation from static camera, where there are some features that are hard to sample for antialiasing. For example thin, highly reflective features with strong highlights. In case of moving noise patterns, these will flicker and shimmer even when camera doesn't move. When you lock the noise pattern, they will look exactly same each frame, so you will require a LOT less passes to reach noise and flicker free result. This in some cases can save up to 75% of rendertime.
« Last Edit: 2016-03-28, 16:30:39 by Rawalanche »

2016-03-28, 19:21:44
Reply #1092

alexyork

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Ondra, is there any reason we should *not* enable static noise when rendering animation with denoising also enabled? We're currently rendering a full animation like this but using standard temporal noise. Results look great and the render-time saving is simply massive... in some cases it seems to be cutting our render times by about 60%..... well, this is combined with adaptive, which has also helped hugely. But if we swap over to static noise might we expect better results?

If you denoise quite noisy output, let's say more than 10% noise threshold, then you may see some sort of flickering or shimmering on your surface, because after all, denoiser just blurs the noise. If you make the noise pattern static, then you will likely be able to denoise even quite undercooked renders without any flickering, where as if you denoise undercooked renders with moving noise pattern, then you may get that flicker.

Basically, there are two reasons to use temporal noise:

1, Postprocessing denoisers can then identify what is noise and separate it from detail that's supposed to be in the scene. If the noise is static, they can not, they will think it's some lens or surface feature.

2, If you intend to render output that's not too clean and do not intend to denoise, then having static pattern enabled could result in dirty lens syndrome, seeing noise pattern sliding across the image. That is often undesired.

There are also quite a few reasons to use static noise pattern:

1, If you use Corona's denoiser, you it is less likely you will see flickering

2, If you intend to render very clean animation. Under certain noise level value, static noise is indistinguishable by naked eye, where as temporal noise is still visible. So if you know your output will be quite clean, making noise static will make it appear even cleaner.

3, If you are rendering animation from static camera, where there are some features that are hard to sample for antialiasing. For example thin, highly reflective features with strong highlights. In case of moving noise patterns, these will flicker and shimmer even when camera doesn't move. When you lock the noise pattern, they will look exactly same each frame, so you will require a LOT less passes to reach noise and flicker free result. This in some cases can save up to 75% of rendertime.

Thanks for this post, Rawa! This is exactly what I had in my head and we've been working to this work-flow so far, so good to know.

I think going forward it might be a good idea to have Corona warn the user if you have denoising enabled but static noise disabled. Sounds like it would be beneficial almost all the time to have static enabled when using denoising, and disabled when you're not. We've avoided static noise for anything not being denoised, since it looks god-awful in animations unless you have a crazy clean render, as you say, which is not practical when it comes to cost management. Denoising & adaptivity seem to be saving us a massive, massive amount of time and money so far, which is superb....
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2016-03-28, 20:27:08
Reply #1093

Bormax

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Hello!

I tried build from 25-03-2016, there some problems I've noticed with region render and denoising:
When region has been rendered denoised picture has rendered region as it should be, but the rest of it is actually from the last picture which has been denoised. So if I rendered something with no denoising or canceled it I'll get last denoised part of the image even if I changed camera. Not denoised picture looks like it should.
After several times of switching to region rendering and back to full picture rendering denoising stops work. Denoising reports very short process but it doesn't do anything. After reset Max it starts to work again

3DS Max 2014

2016-03-29, 00:59:03
Reply #1094

snakebox

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Ondra,  I'm a little confused by the latest daily build 28th notes?  Has nothing changed from the 25th build except the addition of "velocity render element prototype" or is there changes to DR and some of the other  big errors people have reported in 25th build?

I don't want to install it if nothing else is new :)   thanks