Author Topic: xeon V3/V4 price vs. performance  (Read 11337 times)

2018-09-04, 13:45:47

Radim Razzak

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Hi there,

what is the best price vs. performance CPU available on eBay for 2011-3 these days? I have a dual socket Supermicro X10DRL-C motherboard.

Thanks

2018-09-05, 22:49:05
Reply #1

Vuk

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Hi you didn’t write for what kind of work you need it. Will this be a workstation pc or a render node? Since you mentioned Ebay I guess you are not shy to get an ES or QS cpu? Anyway a good second hand v3 xeon for a workstation would be the 2683v3, 2686v3 or a 2696v3 ofc all QS samples since ES are only good for render nodes and nothing else. But to be honest at this moment a good workstation cpu that is the best bang for the buck and yet a good performer is not a xeon, but any of the ryzen threadripper chips. Especially the last gen-ones that are really cheap now.

If on the other hand you need it for a render node then Xeons are better since they are cheaper to build and burn less electricity. A good cpu would be a 2698 v4 ES. Gives you around 4200-4400 CB points and a 46-49 sec Corona bench score. Although I would go for the 24 core Platinums now they are really I mean really cheap and give you better then 2990wx performance for half the money (31-33 sec of Corona bench score) but thats another socket... You can always buy an X11 mobo though :).

2018-09-05, 23:15:07
Reply #2

Juraj

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@Vuk,

How's the memory compatibility situation with them ? But checking the price of ECC ram looks reasonably good on ebay. Compared to non-ECC, that is.

Anyway, my personal take is to take Threadripper regardless of if you want workstation or server, as you can always repurpose Threadripper into workstation (should you even switch to GPU rendering even better) in future should you need (get another employee,etc.. ) but ES Xeons will stay CPU-only render farms. That 1k difference is easy to forgive in long run with price of other current stuff (memory).
(This comes from guy with six 2698v4 (3 servers) and quite many other ES xeon builds)

Well, unless you plan to buy quite few of them..
(Do they work in quad-socket ? Don't have time to go through the motherboard lists the sellers have put out. EDIT: Nope, looks like not.)

This is more of continuation of Vuk's point. If you can buy QS/OEM with good price ( I don't see any after brief search ) go ahead with that since you already own a board.
« Last Edit: 2018-09-05, 23:43:54 by Juraj Talcik »
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2018-09-05, 23:54:04
Reply #3

Vuk

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@Juraj

To be honest I always hated ecc compatibility it even costed me double sometimes... Stupid me for not blindly following the QWL list and trying to save a few bucks with ram that has just one different letter code then the one on the qwl... But to be honest I also had problems with Threadripper ram as well but at least it worked, not at the desired clock speeds but it worked. As for the ram I got for the Platinums it was relativley cheap around 170$ for a stick of 16gigs brand new from Supermicro reseller were I also got the X11 dph-i board. Just told em what board I want and they said they will make sure it will be compatible or they will change it on their expense.

I was actually going for a node this time. Already have a few workstations around like the i9s and the 1950x and 1920x. Will probably make a 2990wx but ill wait a couple of months when all is sattled, coolers, mobos, etc... Its actually more then 1k difference at least with the prices I can get around me here in my country. But yea the 2990wx is just another beast and generally like 99% of my rendering time during the day is interactive rendering not distribute, which is done like once or maybe twice at the end of the day. So makes sense to take the fastest possible machine for a workstation.


2018-09-06, 00:14:08
Reply #4

Juraj

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More than 1k ? Do you buy from seller outside of Ebay ? What region you can buy from ?

I made a quick Supermicro X11 board (500 euro) + 4x16 DDR ECC (650 euro) + 2 x 24c platz ( 2x 430 euro ) = 1600 +/- Euro
For Threadripper (2990WX 1820 euro) I didn't count with top-grade memory (3200+) and MEG/Aorus Xtreme but regular 2933 (600 euro) + run of the mill x399 board for 300 euro, which comes out at 2700 +/- Euro.

So ok it is a little over the 1k, and even close to 1.5k if go with best memory and MEG board.

Anyway, thanks much for bringing this info here, I didn't check ebay for grey market xeons for quite few months and I remember it all dry out. For one moment I stop keeping up and there is fresh stuff being sold :- ).
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2018-09-06, 08:23:23
Reply #5

Vuk

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Yes its actually closer to the 1.5k euro since the 2990wx at least where I buy 90% of my components ( Eastern Europe Hungary ) is like 2080 euros rigt now. It was the same with the 1950x after 3 months from release the price went down and I am sure it will for the 2990wx as well. The 1920x was like 360-380 euros a few days ago and I grabed that one as well but the 1950x is like 25-30% better in actual rendering tests. To be honest I am not that happy with amd since I usually want to overclock everything I buy its like an addiction :). I mean the product is great don’t get me wrong you can’t buy anything that gives you this performance from the blue team for the same amount of money. The thing is that I had this small problems when overkloking on asus x399 boards. I increase the cpu ratio and the cpu is not responding - stock speed on all core values when I test it... As soon as I update the bios voila it works but when I hit the limit and reset again not responding and I have to go back and forth with bios flashing... Intel on the other hand, the I9’s, they don’t have this kind of overkloking/bios problems they “just” overheat like crazy and cost 30% more... Also for some reason amd tends to give better CB scores ( 1950x vs 7940x  ) yet the i9 performs better in Corona bench and real-life rendering situations.

Back to the Platinum vs 2990wx as render node story. So aside from the initial 1.5k saving I guess you will also save alot on electricity in the long run. I haven’t had time to check how much power it pulls directly from the wall when its rendering but I will check it today. The cpu’s are also crazy cool when rendering they are at max 45-48 C with the new Noctua lga 3647 14s coolers. And from what I seen the 2990wx has a Corona bench score of 36 sec ( the best result with it on the list ) I actually got 31 sec with the 24c Platinum a few days ago. I attached a photo of a 10 minute rendering. Titan 4 is the dual 2698v4 es cpu with 80 threads I got around 1.5 years ago, Titan 5 is the Platinum 24 core. You can see that after 10min 2698 has 40 passes while Platinum 8160 has 74 even though the difference in CB points is 750-800 and Corona bench is 48-47 vs 31-32. Just another proof that the fast benchmarks are not a real measurement of power...

@Radim

Sorry for hijacking your thread with this post :) I went kinda off-topic.


2018-09-06, 09:56:28
Reply #6

Juraj

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Just another proof that the fast benchmarks are not a real measurement of power...

I would say say it's proof on Corona rather than the CPUs. Not sure if the Infinity-Fabric is "memory starved" in Corona as the Reddit drones about but it does scale less favorably than Intel.
It does scale properly in Vray though, so I would say there is definitely room for improvement.

CineBench isn't synthetic benchmark either in true sense I would say it's way more valid benchmark than the odd multi-process Corona Benchmark 1.3 which hardly starts with full-cores engagement.

Interesting thing is that when my 2698v4 Node and i9 7980XE are set for same CB 4400 score, i9 is still 6-10perc. faster in actual rendering in both Vray and Corona, but surprisingly, not in the 1.3 benchmark. I also attribute that to fast memory access. (and the AVX shanenigans)

I have currently much higher faith in overclocking 2990WX than my 7980XE which despite delidding can't transfer the heat properly through the small die, while the massive multi-die 2990WX seems like breeze to every reviewer.
Also, my stupid ROG Strix x299 has fucking 8 VRM phases total, while MSI MEG x399 has massive 19 phases (16 for the cpu). I would need to get another board for Intel, but even the best overclocking board has 12 phases for CPU, which isn't enough for the 18c to reach past 4.0 Ghz AVX (4.5 non AVX).

Not arguing that dual-platz won't reach better result, no reason why it shouldn't. But that's the only thing it can do :- ). I kind of feel I should grab pair of them as well but I bought so much crap in past weeks I need to get my hardware&gadgets buying habits in check.

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2018-09-06, 10:48:31
Reply #7

Vuk

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I actually have an X299 Taichi XE which is 12 phases I guess. Bought it since I thought I could push the 14 core I9 harder but I just hit a wall at 4.2 Ghz all core on a Kraken X62 and thats it. I won't even start on the topic of some cores (2 best cores) being from 9-11 degrees C cooler then the last 2 which are the worst... I guess deliding the chip and a fency waterloop of at least 400 euros would make it perform better but is there any point to invest in this now that TR 2 is out and that for the same money you can get the upcoming 24 core which is surely faster then then any of the delided I9's I guess even then the 18core XE which delided and waterlooped will cost you more for sure...

When I got the 24cores they were 500usd on Ebay with included shipping while the 28cores were 1000$ and not a good buy but now they are 800usd and I guess they scale the same way as the 24cores do against the 20core-ones. So for sure are 30% faster then the 24core counterparts and are even a better buy now. For me its not more a habit it has become a fetish of sorts... I have to control myself as well. At least the winters in the office feel like summers nowadays :D.

2018-09-06, 10:57:04
Reply #8

Juraj

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At least the winters in the office feel like summers nowadays :D.

:- D

Yeah same here. This summer I installed 4K Watt AC because last summer 34C+ temps and even two workstations occasionally doing IR rendering was too much, full-on Sauna experience.

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2018-09-06, 17:35:24
Reply #9

arqrenderz

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Hi VUK, i cant find a decent price for the 8160, its in the 4900 dlls each procesor, and the threadripper is like 1800dlls .

2018-09-06, 17:54:53
Reply #10

Juraj

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Search "world-wide" category, there are only two countries that ship them predominantly :- ).
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2018-09-06, 19:42:05
Reply #11

Radim Razzak

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Thanks for your advice VUK. The ES 8160s look really good, too bad the motherboards are kind of expensive...

2018-09-06, 20:48:58
Reply #12

Vuk

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@arqrenderz - search on ebay ES and you will find it.

@Radim Razzak - search on the supermicro site for your country maybe you can find a local re-seller in your country that might be cheaper then ebay or amazon and you have actual warrenty from a local place plus a possibility to get ram from them as well. I searched for the boards on ebay and amazon first the only available in Europe was in London and it costed 750 pounds without shipping not to mention the taxes my country would make me pay if I order. Finally found local re-seller on supermicro website and it costed 530 euros...

2018-09-07, 13:42:46
Reply #13

Juraj

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What taxes ? Brexit still didn't happen :- ), so there isn't any import, and whether you buy something locally on EU market the VAT is pretty much the same (+/- 20-21perc.), either paid locally depending on status of self-payer for your incorporation business.
UK=Hungary=Etc... at least for now.

Right now the lowest ebay price seems to be 530 Euro + 30 euro shipping (already includes VAT), from UK, but that's it, that's the final price for everyone in EU resident. I doubt it will go lower.
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2018-09-07, 17:31:00
Reply #14

Vuk

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I never said I was from Hungary I just said I buy stuff there since they have a bigger IT market and more exotic stuff :). I am from Serbia and since we are not in the EU I have to pay taxes for all the stuff I order via Ebay/Amazon that exceeds 50usd so lucky me...