Author Topic: New workstation 5k Budget  (Read 6690 times)

2019-11-30, 20:22:43

DanNissn

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Im pretty lost when it comes to the hardware side of things, but im in need of a new workstation (5k USD budget). I've read around to gather as much info as I can and was wondering thoughts on this build.

Background info I use CPU/GPU render engines pretty equally.

Threadripper 2990WX (cant really wait for gen 3 Threadrippers)
Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler
X399 AORUS
Kingston HyperX Predator 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (Can't see myself working on a project that would exceed 64gb but is going up to 128 just worth it in case I ever do?)
Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB
Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case
be quiet! Straight Power 11 1000 W

Any help/thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!

2019-11-30, 22:44:40
Reply #1

James Vella

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Power is overkill. Rest looks great.

Without seeing the hard drives, or your upgrade options (such as adding another 2080 TI later on) I would say you dont need anything more than 750Watts on the safe side.

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

Even with an SSD, and a normal HDD connected with this setup you still dont need more than 700Watts power. If you do decide to add another 2080 later, then 1100 Watts is more than enough.

2019-12-01, 01:51:26
Reply #2

Juraj

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Quote
Power is overkill

1000W is definitely not overkill for this kind of build, and that doesn't take into account why overbuilt PSUs can be good idea in general with many benefits ( Being on top of efficiency curve, cooler & more silent operation, with hybrid PSUs like Seasonic you can run passive mode most of the time in fact, longevity.. )

Both 2990WX & 2080ti can have peak power draw of 280W each, and they will during IR with Optix for example. That's 560W alone at stock settings for both.
PBO (overclock) the 2990WX and the CPU alone can eat up to 350W draw on Air (Noctua UH-14) or up to 500W on water loop (to reach 4.1 GHz all-core), tested on both of my 2990WX builds.

Overclocked 8 modules 32GB of dual-rank 1.35+ V memory can eat up to 80-100W. Threadripper uses memory for the infinity fabric connection, so the memory gets higher utilization (when I compared my i9 7980XE to 2990WX, the difference for same memory kit was quite staggering).

When you adjust for proper frequencies and realistic V-Core, and input correct usage (rendering and total time of 16+ Hours per day), the suggested wattage from outervision calculator is 900+ W.
For top HEDT CPU+GPU, going straight for 1K Watt PSU is more than reasonable choice.

Quote
(cant really wait for gen 3 Threadrippers)
Are they completely out-of-stock where you are? Most places I see have few on order within a week (although most by mid-December). They are superior to such a level you shouldn't even consider 2990WX. Just shouldn't.

Esp. since you mention you don't even use more than 64GB of memory, which I find hard to believe as you only need to open few photoshops on top of Max and it's game over for me, but have you considered 3950X ? It has 80-85perc. of the multithreaded performance, but is massively faster in single-core, with none of the compromises from architecture that 2990WX has (only two dies have memory controller).
If you would be interested how such build could look, I posted my specs here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=21416.msg159902#msg159902 I will build it in following few days.

On components:

Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler- This will not work, 99perc. of AIOs use round Asetec pump/plate module that doesn't cover the heatspreader of TR platform. Since there is currently no AIO suitable for Threadripper (the only one being Enermax Liqtech II, and that's faulty product of super poor quality best to avoid), the only choice is Noctua UH-14s TR4, or custom water loop. The Noctua is perfect choice.

Intel 660p- This is QLC based SSD with all the negatives that come with it, although that doesn't make it bad product at all. QLC is super suitable for storage but makes for somewhat low-end system drive. I would advise going for something with faster cache like Samsung 970 Evo, the price difference isn't drastic for 1TB units.

Corsair 750D- This is 6 years old (or more?) old design, and it was mediocre case already back than. It eventually had "AirFlow edition" revival but it's costly, not worth the performance. Unless you already have this case, or you totally love the design, I would advise going with something far superior, like Fractal Design Define R6.

Last thing: Memory right now is very cheap. It costed 2X as much last year, and the situation might not last, particularly for DDR4 which is at end of its life. You might regret in future for not buying 128GB kit when it was very affordable.

« Last Edit: 2019-12-01, 02:21:29 by Juraj Talcik »
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2019-12-01, 03:35:04
Reply #3

DanNissn

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@Juraj Talcik Thank you for the super detailed response, I was able to find a 3960X and updated my build a little and took your suggestions. Also your point on the ram is very true and have no problem spending the extra for 128. 

AMD Threadripper 3960X
Noctua NH-U12S TR4-SP3 54.97 CFM CPU Cooler
Asus ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming ATX sTRX4 Motherboard
G.Skill Trident Z Neo 64 GB (8 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (not sure on this??????)
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB ROG Strix Gaming OC Video Card
Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case
be quiet! Straight Power 11 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

Thanks for any and all help! :)
Also anything else you suggest I get while im purchasing all of this?

« Last Edit: 2019-12-01, 04:04:10 by DanNissn »

2019-12-01, 09:20:02
Reply #4

James Vella

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PBO (overclock) the 2990WX and the CPU alone can eat up to 350W draw on Air (Noctua UH-14) or up to 500W on water loop (to reach 4.1 GHz all-core), tested on both of my 2990WX builds.

Overclocked 8 modules 32GB of dual-rank 1.35+ V memory can eat up to 80-100W. Threadripper uses memory for the infinity fabric connection, so the memory gets higher utilization (when I compared my i9 7980XE to 2990WX, the difference for same memory kit was quite staggering).

Good point regarding the overclocking, I usually keep things stock standard so good to know about your experience!

Esp. since you mention you don't even use more than 64GB of memory, which I find hard to believe as you only need to open few photoshops on top of Max and it's game over for me

Agreed here, 64GB is quite minimal these days but I suspect most people know their needs in regards to RAM requirements depending on size of the scenes they work with. Saying that though when you have the power you ultimately end up pushing it as far as you can so 128GB is a safe bet for a hulk of a machine like this.

The Noctua is perfect choice.

Intel 660p- This is QLC based SSD with all the negatives that come with it, although that doesn't make it bad product at all. QLC is super suitable for storage but makes for somewhat low-end system drive. I would advise going for something with faster cache like Samsung 970 Evo, the price difference isn't drastic for 1TB units.

Good to know about the Noctua, I think I read you talking about this once before ill have to keep this in mind for future.

In regards to the Samsung EVO I was about to purchase one of these the other day but decided to spend my money elsewhere. Can you give some specific examples where this faster cache has a real impact? I would be keen to know what Im missing out on.




2019-12-01, 11:28:56
Reply #5

PROH

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@DanNissn - Juraj talks about the Noctua NH 14s and you're listing the NH 12s. I'm not an expert, but I don't think they perform equal. Maybe it's a mistake?

2019-12-01, 11:49:27
Reply #6

Juraj

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In regards to the Samsung EVO I was about to purchase one of these the other day but decided to spend my money elsewhere. Can you give some specific examples where this faster cache has a real impact? I would be keen to know what Im missing out on.

You definitely didn't make bad choice, expensive SSDs are never worth it. EVO range is something I see as good middle ground between costs/performance/reliability. Capacity > Performance.

Samsung 970 Evo is TLC based with good portion of SLC cache to speed up, and some good "cycling" tech that allows the speed to almost never drop even when you run out of the faster cache. Most SSDs aren't like that, 970 is fast, always.

The Intel 660p is one of those that aren't, and they only have small portion (10perc.) of faster SLC cache, after which they drop down to their QLC cache and than things become slow and Intel is using a slow version of this process called "variable sized blocks".
This becomes an issue when the drive will eventually fill up, which system drive inevitably will. The NVMe/PCI-e is mostly misleading here, this drive will become much slower than good SATA drive. Look at this drive, it will drop down to 150 MB/s.



My general advice, is to go middle of the road with PCI-e drives (the top high-end like PRO series only offer higher reliability/longevity/warranty), but when outside of budget, a good SATA based SSD for storage of projects/Assets like 860 is better than cheap PCI-e drive.

@DanNissn - Juraj talks about the Noctua NH 14s and you're listing the NH 12s. I'm not an expert, but I don't think they perform equal. Maybe it's a mistake?

Yes, for Threadripper you should stick to UH-14s TR4. UH12s is not a good cooler, Noctua already has much better one UH12a which is almost as good as NH-D15, but neither of those are available for Threadripper.
Somewhere in Q1 2020, one or both of those will become available for TR as well, but not at the moment.

Quote
G.Skill Trident Z Neo 64 GB (8 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (not sure on this??????)

TRX40 supports memory this fast, and it will run so fast in 64 GB configuration mostly, but not in 128 GB Configuration. I believe the fastest you can get memory for 8x16 is still 2933 (or 3200 with good luck).
But that doesn't mean you cannot buy faster memory, you will just run it lower in bios if it affects stability.
Interesting thing I have seen in manual for TRX40 boards, is that 4x32 GB can run faster officially than 8x16 GB, probably because it has two ranks in each module but populates only half the slots, lessening the stress on memory controller.
I haven't seen anyone test this though! But it would give you option for 256GB in future :- ) The price is the same, but there is only one type of kit for this from Corsair (3200 CL16).

Quote
Asus ROG Strix TRX40-E

Good choice! All Asus TRX40 boards have good VRM, which is in my opinion the most important aspect. The features are lacking in all <600 Euro boards sadly, but that's the reality. The STRIX shouldn't dissapoint and it pairs well with 3960X, you will be very happy I can guarantee :- ).
« Last Edit: 2019-12-01, 11:59:24 by Juraj Talcik »
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2019-12-01, 17:04:03
Reply #7

DanNissn

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Thanks to you all for advice and help!

2019-12-02, 01:31:03
Reply #8

Juraj

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Don't forget to post pictures and benchmarks once you build :- )
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2019-12-02, 05:07:35
Reply #9

DanNissn

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Don't forget to post pictures and benchmarks once you build :- )

Of course!

2019-12-05, 03:48:14
Reply #10

DanNissn

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Hey Juraj you have been very helpful and had a few more questions if you dont mind.

Im worried about high temps with the 3960x threardripper and 2080 Ti. I saw in your build in another forum post for a 3950X, that you included 4x Noctua a12x25(PWM) for airflow, do you suggest I do the same? The case I have ordered is the Fractal Design Define R6 and cooler I have is the Noctua NH-U14S?

2019-12-05, 11:35:53
Reply #11

Juraj

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I am only building 3950X in relatively compact case, Fractal Define C which only takes 120mm fans, so hence a12x25 which is the best 120 fan that exists. I always populate all front-to-back positions for ideal airflow. More fans is always better as they can run slower and keep the whole PC silent.
With bigger case (like Fractal Define S/S2 or R6 you can even populate tripple 140mm fans in front (in R6 it's two in front and one in front bottom) and one in back without opening the top of the case. The best air-flow 140mm fan is Noctua nf-a14. It comes in black :- ).

Front-to-back with strong front intake is ideal for dust avoiding due to positive pressure. It's how servers or even the new MacPro are built.

The R6 already comes with 3 fans (fixed 1000 rpm), which are ok.
« Last Edit: 2019-12-05, 11:53:42 by Juraj Talcik »
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
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2019-12-05, 15:59:35
Reply #12

Gewiz90

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Hey Juraj, what RAM are you using for your 3950X Build? 

2019-12-05, 16:01:05
Reply #13

Juraj

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Corsair 2x (2x32GB 3200 CL16). I don't think it will run that high given that 4x32GB kit is only 2667 but we'll see. 2800-2933 would be nice of course..
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2019-12-06, 14:59:15
Reply #14

James Vella

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Ok those are some benchmarks I didnt expect, so the EVO gets faster as it fills up? Thats mighty confusing lol.