Author Topic: xeon v4 cpus  (Read 42889 times)

2016-06-29, 21:59:19
Reply #30

Juraj

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Installed my new 80 thread machine, with Windows 10 pro (although I really should get brother's enterprise from school so I can get rid of all the forced crap).

Alright, some issues seem to resurface after reinstall ;- ) Spoke bit too early maybe.



« Last Edit: 2016-06-30, 00:32:24 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2016-06-29, 22:36:13
Reply #31

alexyork

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That's encouraging.

Peter, we're ordering one imminently so will let you know our findings. I wonder if you have some dodgy hardware or software issue that is unique to your machine because Scan are not reporting any issues. Did you have the same problem with the other one you've got?
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2016-06-30, 02:52:26
Reply #32

Juraj

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Alright, the affinity really is there as bug (but only for applications that call for it, so..yes, Corona too), but runtime broker only happens under particular conditions. Doesn't require restart, just restart the process :- ) BUT, annoying.

Another strange thing, Corona Benchmark only uses 95perc. of cpu, and underclocks. Cinebench works correctly (perfectly !!! :- )  ) Is this because of AVX instructions ? Broadwell has (for whatever odd reason) lower turbo with AVX sets. I don't get it either.

Last, we can all blame the fantastic Windows Processor groups (which Windows creates when more than 64 threads exist). What a fucking feature....

Quote
By default, an application is constrained to a single group, which should provide ample processing capability for the typical application
Thanks Microsoft, but no.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd405503(v=vs.85).aspx

I believe some of this could be solved by newer bios too, but there would have to be one first...
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2016-06-30, 07:22:42
Reply #33

GabaCGStudio

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Installed my new 80 thread machine, with Windows 10 pro.


hi Juraj,

what's your case chasis platform? EEB or ATX or eATX?
and what's you fan? u14?
« Last Edit: 2016-06-30, 07:34:22 by GabaCGStudio »

2016-06-30, 09:28:35
Reply #34

alexyork

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Alright, the affinity really is there as bug (but only for applications that call for it, so..yes, Corona too), but runtime broker only happens under particular conditions. Doesn't require restart, just restart the process :- ) BUT, annoying.

Another strange thing, Corona Benchmark only uses 95perc. of cpu, and underclocks. Cinebench works correctly (perfectly !!! :- )  ) Is this because of AVX instructions ? Broadwell has (for whatever odd reason) lower turbo with AVX sets. I don't get it either.

Last, we can all blame the fantastic Windows Processor groups (which Windows creates when more than 64 threads exist). What a fucking feature....

Quote
By default, an application is constrained to a single group, which should provide ample processing capability for the typical application
Thanks Microsoft, but no.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd405503(v=vs.85).aspx

I believe some of this could be solved by newer bios too, but there would have to be one first...

So Peter's not alone then.... dispite what Scan tell me! I will speak with them today about this and try to get to the bottom of it.
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2016-06-30, 10:04:41
Reply #35

Ryuu

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Another strange thing, Corona Benchmark only uses 95perc. of cpu, and underclocks. Cinebench works correctly (perfectly !!! :- )  ) Is this because of AVX instructions ? Broadwell has (for whatever odd reason) lower turbo with AVX sets. I don't get it either.

Yes, this is normal. All Intel CPUs lower their max turbo frequency (or at least are supposed to) when using AVX instructions. The AVX execution units are usually switched off to save power and when they are switched on, the CPU disables the highest frequency bin to avoid possible overheating. The latest Broadwells are the only ones which can do this on a per-core basis. With older CPUs whenever any core was executing AVX, all the cores within the same physical CPU switched to this lower max frequency mode.

2016-06-30, 10:40:50
Reply #36

Ondra

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Yes, this is normal. All Intel CPUs lower their max turbo frequency (or at least are supposed to) when using AVX instructions. The AVX execution units are usually switched off to save power and when they are switched on, the CPU disables the highest frequency bin to avoid possible overheating. The latest Broadwells are the only ones which can do this on a per-core basis. With older CPUs whenever any core was executing AVX, all the cores within the same physical CPU switched to this lower max frequency mode.

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2016-06-30, 12:06:24
Reply #37

Juraj

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That's super problematic, because it lowers them by 500mhz !! : / They still super fast, but nowhere near what they can do. I wonder if there's something that can be done.

Corona benchmark lowers all of them. I'll see if actual rendering does the same.

Quote
hi Juraj,

what's your case chasis platform? EEB or ATX or eATX?
and what's you fan? u14?

SSI-CEB. It aligns with E-Atx you just put away the standoffs that don't match (two of them).

Yup, Noctua NH-U14S, it fits even when all 16 slots are populated, I tried :- ) There is no reason to go for anything smaller if this fits so perfectly. The heatsink is very tall and the heatpipes have more than 1cm of space to the nearest memory slot. The fan also clears the Mosfet heatsink also. You could actually populate it with 4 fans( and set them to 500rpm for example even in 100perc.) if you wanted.
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2016-06-30, 12:29:16
Reply #38

alexyork

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I'm wondering if the E5-2697A is a solution of sorts, here. It's 16-core, so that = 64 threads across the system.

E5-2697A 2.6ghz * 16 cores = 41.6ghz
V
E5-2697 2.3ghz * 18 cores = 41.4ghz.

So on paper the cheaper CPU (£130 cheaper per chip!) is actually marginally *faster* than the more expensive one, will have a faster per-core performance which is better for Parsing and Displacement etc. and should also not have any issues with this Affinity problem.

Unless the issue remains when you are AT 64-threads as well as > 64-threads?
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2016-06-30, 12:40:23
Reply #39

Juraj

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E5-2697A is 140 dollars more expensive, not cheaper ( $2891.00 MSRP for A version).

Also, these mathematics need to be done with all-core turbo. But even that doesn't matter anymore if AVX sets underclock : /

E5-2697A  (turbo 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/6/7/8/10/10 ) so (2.6+0.5)x16= 49.6 Ghz
E5-2697    (5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/13/13) so (2.3 +0.5)x18=50.4 Ghz

Also, similarly, they both have same single-core turbo of 3.6Ghz, so there should be no difference if they use it properly. But in cases like this, the one with higher base clock, will always be better for Workstation.

So the difference is marginal and will depend on unpredictable factors. I considered Cinebench R15 to be ultimate measure but the AVX crap thrown this idea away yesterday.

The groups should start after 64, but I will not put my hand into fire for it :- )
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2016-06-30, 12:45:35
Reply #40

alexyork

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E5-2697A is 140 dollars more expensive, not cheaper ( $2891.00 MSRP for A version).

Also, these mathematics need to be done with all-core turbo. But even that doesn't matter anymore if AVX sets underclock : /

E5-2697A  (turbo 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/6/7/8/10/10 ) so (2.6+0.5)x16= 49.6 Ghz
E5-2697    (5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/13/13) so (2.3 +0.5)x18=50.4 Ghz

Also, similarly, they both have same single-core turbo of 3.6Ghz, so there should be no difference if they use it properly. But in cases like this, the one with higher base clock, will always be better for Workstation.


So the difference is marginal and will depend on unpredictable factors. I considered Cinebench R15 to be ultimate measure but the AVX crap thrown this idea away yesterday.

The groups should start after 64, but I will not put my hand into fire for it :- )

The A variant is definitely cheaper than the non A-variant here in the UK right now - £130 cheaper, per chip. Unfortunately availability seems to be very bad for this one...
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2016-06-30, 12:48:31
Reply #41

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2016-06-30, 12:51:49
Reply #42

Juraj

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I tried all of them yesterday :- ) You can guess the result...
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2016-06-30, 12:53:50
Reply #43

peterguthrie

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yep, tried everything I can find online, including both of those, no luck.

a proper fix from microsoft needed, and needed quickly!

2016-06-30, 13:02:01
Reply #44

alexyork

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Well that's some BS right there.... I've asked one of the guys at Scan to urgently contact Asus for information in case this is an issue that can be fixed with a BIOS update.
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