Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] General Discussion => Topic started by: TomG on 2016-10-27, 14:42:54
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Hi all!
We have an energetic topic going on about making Corona easier to use, but it will need to be turned into actionable items. I'd like to start with the question - which parameters or tooltips do you find hardest to understand? Is there one you've never touched because you don't know what it is, but wonder if you are missing out on some feature or control? Is there a tooltip that always left you scratching your head when you read it?
Please keep the conversation to a simple list of parameters and any comments on the tooltips for those - this will allow two possible solutions, either improved tooltips to make things clearer, or as a guide to new tutorials we could work on to clarify things. All other conversation on easy / expert UI checkboxes, adding or removing parameters, re-arranging the UI etc can be done elsewhere, to help keep us get the best info on where tooltip improvements and / or tutorials would be useful!
Thanks!
Tom
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Currently, my render elements include CESSENTIAL_Reflect. That's it. It suits my workflow to keep the PP as simple as possible. (due to constant revisions/simplicity)
I'm ignorant of the function for a lot of these other R.E's? Beside the obvious ones...
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After LightMix i don't use Beauty at all in interiors and night shots. Every time when I add some new lighting to the scene I need to do new setup for LightMix. It's simle to pick automatic setup, but after this I need to denoise every element. May be default denoising for elements must be on if Beauty has denoising? It's strange to keep Beauty with denoise and lightmix without. Yes, I know about memory problem, but who needs LightMix with noise?
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CoronaData is impossible for understanding at all.
CoronaMix Material, Why it keep existing bitmap in top layer and not in base layer?
Why we have a pin vivid and so on blending modes, and don't have a color mode. Some other modes have names not corresponding photoshop names. "Add" for example. In some soft it's equivalent to screen mode, but you have screen mode here. What is AddSub.? What is use case for max, min, gamma modes and so on. There are no tooltips at all.
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CoronaData is impossible for understanding at all.
CoronaMix Material, Why it keep existing bitmap in top layer and not in base layer?
Why we have a pin vivid and so on blending modes, and don't have a color mode. Some other modes have names not corresponding photoshop names. "Add" for example. In some soft it's equivalent to screen mode, but you have screen mode here. What is AddSub.? What is use case for max, min, gamma modes and so on. There are no tooltips at all.
Corona Data is for debugging or analytical purposes, you won't need it I guess.
As for the modes, why do you insist that they have to be identical to PS? Photoshop doesn't have true Add mode for example, and Screen and Add aren't the same thing.
If you want to understand them and how they're useful, why not just take the time and test them...? You certainly didn't need tooltips in PS in order to use them and probably just tried what they do. If you really need to know what they do, look it up on google, there's a lot of info what blending modes do and how they work.
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It's been discussed before but I find the whole relationship between CoronaCameraMod, RenderSettings, PhysicalCamera and finally the VFB messy to understand. I understand there is a hierarchy but I keep forgetting the order as it feels inconsistent.
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Tom,
After reading some other threads on similar/the same topic and thinking about it for a bit, I think the next step in terms of making Corona simpler it is not really so much about certain buttons, etc. as it is about workflow. Like in the previous post I made above, ideally there shouldn't be a question on which way is the best in order to accomplish something, it is then not simple anymore.
Whenever I read posts with skilled users arguing of which way is best to place a car against a road backplate, expose a scene or other in theory basic tasks, it to me indicates that things could be simplified. Not the tools or options themselves perhaps, but the workflow.
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Tom,
After reading some other threads on similar/the same topic and thinking about it for a bit, I think the next step in terms of making Corona simpler it is not really so much about certain buttons, etc. as it is about workflow. Like in the previous post I made above, ideally there shouldn't be a question on which way is the best in order to accomplish something, it is then not simple anymore.
Whenever I read posts with skilled users arguing of which way is best to place a car against a road backplate, expose a scene or other in theory basic tasks, it to me indicates that things could be simplified. Not the tools or options themselves perhaps, but the workflow.
The problem is that everybody has his own workflow. So corona can't be to restrictive by adopting one way... It's a quite difficult question.
I would start by eliminate redundancy. ex: Depth of field ->camera mod -> physical camera -> render settings..
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Honestly i think that thread could be addressed with a simple video tutorial series explaining each feature and what it could do.
Im surprised nobody has jumped on the bandwagon and submitted one to digital tutors yet quite frankly!
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Honestly i think that thread could be addressed with a simple video tutorial series explaining each feature and what it could do.
Im surprised nobody has jumped on the bandwagon and submitted one to digital tutors yet quite frankly!
It's not so useful. Usually I am looking for 5% of info, but I need to see whole tutorial. May be 2 min. tutorials.
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Fair Point
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It's not so useful. Usually I am looking for 5% of info, but I need to see whole tutorial. May be 2 min. tutorials.
That's actually an idea we have come up with recently. Instead of text + a series of images with explanations, one very short video demonstrating each feature.
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It's not so useful. Usually I am looking for 5% of info, but I need to see whole tutorial. May be 2 min. tutorials.
That's actually an idea we have come up with recently. Instead of text + a series of images with explanations, one very short video demonstrating each feature.
The original set you guys did with 1.0 (ish) were very useful!
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A series of very short videos on as many topics as possible would be wonderful as a quick reference.
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@TomG @Maru
There is some bug in https://corona-renderer.com/doc/ in General Settings where Render selected - mode "disable" at the right.
Same help for materials would be a useful thing.
BTW what is it Hotfix1?
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@astudio: If you haven't yet installed 1.5 Hotfix1, then it might be the solution for your problems (or some of them at least). Pieces from the changelog:
- Reverted white balance tone mapping to 1.4 behavior. 1.4 scenes will render same as in 1.4 and 1.5 scenes will render same as 1.5 (which is different from 1.4) with a warning adivising user to go back to 1.4 behavior (possible with one click)
- 1.4 mix maps now load without appearance change (which means the sRGB mixing is disabled for them upon loading)
Hope it helps
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@PROH
Thank you. You really helped. I missed this announcement. And didn't receive the mail which I usually got for updates.
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@TomG @Maru
There is some bug in https://corona-renderer.com/doc/ in General Settings where Render selected - mode "disable" at the right.
Same bug there in in Camera section
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Hey all!
TY for the feedback here! Just to summarize where we are at present, there aren't any actual requests for improvements / changes to tooltips? What we have from the above is some good questions and requests, though none tooltip related as such:
- Request to make denoise enabled the default for LightSelect parameters
- More short video guides showing a particular parameter (planned to be done, as it happens)
- Tutorial on (and / or changes to) the relationship between CoronaCameraMod, RenderSettings, PhysicalCamera and the VFB
- A bug on the online documentation with some "invisible" fields showing up
- A tutorial (or more than one) on what some of the other Render Elements do
- Some explanation somewhere of the CoronaData map (can't be a tooltip as they don't pop up for maps in the list in the ME)
- A question on why CoronaMix keeps the existing bitmap in top layer rather than base layer
- A question about what the different Mix Operation modes do in CoronaMix (which can't be a tooltip, as it would be too long to make a note for each mode)
If you do have any suggestions for changes to tooltips, let me know :)
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Hi Tom. Here's som tooltip feedback.
In the Corona mtl there's no tooltip at all for Reflection Glossiness. Back when I started using Corona, this gave me some head-scratching, since this particular parameter doesn't work as any other (i.e. Diffuse, Reflection level) when there's a map in the slot set to 100%. And when the bitmap is set lower than a 100% the glossiness value acts as a color swatch.
This may be "natural" for some users (Vray?), but it sure wasn't for me.
BTW - Theres no tooltip for Refraction IOR and Refraction Glossiness as well.
Regards
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TY! Good to know for us to review tooltips! And possibly tutorials too, sounds like it might be good info in those.
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Hi Tom. Another feature missing tooltips is the newly added "Dome mode" in Corona Bitmap. Even tho the parameters will be self-explaining for some, it might not be so for all users.
Personally I think I know what they do - but without tooltips and helpfiles I can't be absolutely sure (I newwer used "Dome mode" before).
Regards
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Depth of field - Sensor width
Motion blur - We have tooltip for enable checkboxes, but haven't it for Transform segments, Geometry segments, Frame offset ;)
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Hi astudio,
Tooltips for all of those exist - but they only show up when the values are active (not greyed out) - that is, Sensor shows when DoF is enabled, and the MoBlur ones when either Enable camera or Enable geometry is active. Are they not showing up for you at all? Or do you mean they aren't easily understood?
Thanks!
Tom
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Hi astudio,
Tooltips for all of those exist - but they only show up when the values are active (not greyed out) - that is, Sensor shows when DoF is enabled, and the MoBlur ones when either Enable camera or Enable geometry is active. Are they not showing up for you at all? Or do you mean they aren't easily understood?
Thanks!
Tom
They are not showing at all. May be it fixed in 1.5.1 . I use 1.5.
Why do you disable tooltips for disabled futures? For me it's some kind of help file. I may learn things without actually using the function.
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Working fine here. Which 3ds Max version are you using? Do you need some help regarding those parameters?
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3ds max 14. I tested that in all computers. Can't see tooltips in subsections, only main tooltips. Corona 1.5 Windows 7 & 8.1 It's strange.