Blender new viewport Eevee

[Ondra]

So why does 3dsmax continue to remain stale? Is Autodesk not questioning why this is or they don't care? I can't understand why 3dsmax continues to get a very crappy viewport compared to Maya. Even Maya has a lighter version. 3dsmax does not. Maya has better hair/vfx

This is cliché answer, but is it stale from sales perspective? If the sales are not down, then there is no reason to change anything from the point of view of executives.

Legacy issues? Any chance you can pls elaborate on this?

When you are just adding new features, the code starts to rot and needs to be refreshed from time to time. If you do not do this, you get into technical debt - you add features quickly, but needed repairs/cleanups are not done. At some point, the debt overcomes you and starts slowing down the development. This is why we are doing just cleanups/rewrites for approx 3 months each year. 3ds max has all sorts of 20 years of technical debt accumulated, that slows everything down.

[melviso]

When you are just adding new features, the code starts to rot and needs to be refreshed from time to time. If you do not do this, you get into technical debt - you add features quickly, but needed repairs/cleanups are not done. At some point, the debt overcomes you and starts slowing down the development. This is why we are doing just cleanups/rewrites for approx 3 months each year. 3ds max has all sorts of 20 years of technical debt accumulated, that slows everything down.

Okay, I do recall a time when 3dsmax was getting a lot of cool features so what they are doing now is refreshing and cleaning up code. Didn't know that tbh. Thanks for the info.

[racoonart]

...so what they are doing now is refreshing and cleaning up code.

Well.... let's say it should be what they are doing.

[melviso]

Well.... let's say it should be what they are doing.

But I would wonder why not split the devs into two teams? One that adds new features and the other that cleans up code? Wouldn't that be a better approach. Blender is open source. Probably doesn't have as much devs as Autodesk yet they seem to be up and doing feature wise.

[Nejc Kilar]

Its probably really hard to develop new features if the underlying code that is supposed to be the foundation keeps changing because it is being updated. I mean it can be done but in smaller, gradual steps.

Maxon is pretty much doing that with Cinema 4D right now - the last 2/3 releases all included a big feature coupled with minor workflow additions. Under the hood they are supposedly rewritting everything.

I think sometimes we as users get a little carried away with how we think things can be changed easily but as most code troubleshooting goes I imagine one small thing can be tied to 100 other big things. Change that thing and the whole system goes weird.

That said, with the leadership and commitment that Autodesk has shown in the past I somehow doubt they've been doing "that much" to the base of the program. Its not a knock off to the dev team but to the organization as a whole - You can't update stuff regularly if you company goals change from week to week. Since most of the functionality (node material editor etc...) presumably just got patched in because they were plugins before, the debt in 3ds max is probably super duper high.

Then again, I could be wrong :)

[Ricky Johnson]

the debt in 3ds max is probably super duper high.

I reckon that Autodesk's profit margin is super duper higher than the debt in the code. :)

Even given the magnitude of the task, they could surely employ the resources to deliver a product worthy of the price we all pay endlessly month after month. Obviously the organisation has become too big to act in a decent human fashion.

It's a shame that it would be so impractical for all subscribers to 'down tools' on 3ds max for a month in a coordinated protest of some kind!

[melviso]

The  funny thing is I am noticing some prominent 3d artists are starting to switch to Blender even as an auxillary tool for some side tasks like uv mapping, texture painting, even sculpting. I am guessing it might take another 2 to 3 years before we see awesome stuff for 3dsmax if the cleanup is that big. I still don't get why Blender devs add features with each release compared to Autodesk though. I guess they are making bank enough not to worry about sales as most companies and 3d artists have adopted their apps as far back as 2003 or thereabout and have built their pipeline/workflow as well as inhouse plugins and tools around these software so to switch is gonna be a pretty bad move.

MaterialX from LucasFilm seems cool though I wonder if this is a good thing for renderer devs especially when it comes to competition.

[melviso]

Really nice stuff in Blender eevee:

[melviso]

Stumbled on this work using Blender eevee. This is awesome. I wonder what can be achieved when 2.8 branch fully released.

[melviso]

Rather than create a new thread, decided to post this here. An  informative interview of Blender's creator, and Blender's beginnings and its future:

He also talks about eevee, Blender's realtime viewport.

Also you can read more about eevee with some nice demo videos here:
https://code.blender.org/2018/03/eevee-f-a-q/

[Nejc Kilar]

@melviso,

Thanks for sharing :) Always fun reading about Blender, heh.

So BlenderGuru says 2.8 will feature a massive UI overhaul. I can't seem to find anything of that magnitude being mentioned on the roadmap or on the "teaser" docs available online. Do you perhaps have any idea what he is talking about?

All I found out was the workspace and layers changes... Huh :)

edit: I guess it gets covered in the middle / at the end of the video there. Stupid me :) Fun video but I do think Andrew is a little too "home use" oriented. Maybe thats just my impression.

[Benny]

That looks incredible. Could anyone give a quick summary of using Blender vs 3ds Max for architecture? Does Evee support HDRI?

Didn't I read a while ago that Corona won't be native in Blender due to some API restriction or something?

[melviso]

@melviso,

Thanks for sharing :) Always fun reading about Blender, heh.

So BlenderGuru says 2.8 will feature a massive UI overhaul. I can't seem to find anything of that magnitude being mentioned on the roadmap or on the "teaser" docs available online. Do you perhaps have any idea what he is talking about?

All I found out was the workspace and layers changes... Huh :)

edit: I guess it gets covered in the middle / at the end of the video there. Stupid me :) Fun video but I do think Andrew is a little too "home use" oriented. Maybe thats just my impression.

No worries, nkilar. :- )

I think the UI is okay tbh. Way better than how busy Zbrush is haha. Most 3d artists complain about UI since it's the first thing u encounter when you open a new app. U need to figure out what does what and where the tools are and how they work compared to the softwares you are familiar with. But the truth is it's just like opening a new book you need to read to acquire info or knowledge, they are like hurdles but most times for me, if you have a little patience and take it easy, you are up and doing with the software in no time.

I remember trying it out after 3dsmax and Maya. Blender does have the 3dsmax navigation for viewport but some of the shortcuts differ. In a week or so, the UI was second nature to me. I do understand why to some artists where tools and features are placed or managed is important but for me, I care more about what I can do with it :-)

@ Benny
Blender does pretty much everything 3dsmax does. Even better as it does sculpting, texture painting very well. I hardly have to use external softwares for those. I would suggest you try it out yourself and try and compare because opinions differ based on different artists experiences with it. I do understand most artists find the UI a bit daunting especially coming from 3dsmax or Maya but I have also seen people who have switched successfully after getting a hang of how it works. In architecture, 3dsmax is still the most used in archviz studios. 3dsmax is still awesome by its right and it works very well with a lot of renderers. I think renderers devs find it easier to work with (I may be wrong here).

I am currently playing about with it. Quite pleased with how quick you can get things up and running. No need to bake maps like ue4 and Lumion is quite pricey.


From this video, Yes, Eevee supports hdri:

I don't know where the Corona devs stand with Blender at the moment. Corona Standalone with Blender has bump and displacement problems. Hopefully there is something done towards that. With 3dsmax, this is not an issue though.

[Benny]

Thanks Melviso, I gave it a look over the weekend and it is very impressive. It must really create a question mark for those looking at Lumion 8 as a real time alternative, which I was initially very impressed with. However, Lumion's funky interface combined with the need to import everything made me feel too much workflow was lost. Having this kind of realtime integrated in an interface that still has powerful modeling and texturing tools is ground breaking.

I need to study it deeper and understand the limitations. As always with realtime you are missing things, and I wonder how Blender works with things like Forestpack, proxies, FBX import and larger scenes. I did a search and although I can't seem to find I remember Ondra saying something about a software, which Corona would not be able to support, that I believe was Blender due to some form of public domain API stuff. I would not want to be dependent on Evee alone in my work, as I have varying quality demands.

[melviso]

I think Blender handles fbx pretty well. Although Autodesk changes fbx requirements from time to time.

I appreciate everything Ondra has done with Corona. It's a really great renderer and I really appreciate them creating a plugin for Blender. It still manageable with Corona standalone. They have worked hard on getting Corona where it is today. If they decide not to support Blender anymore. That's completely fine and I would respect that decision. I remember playing around with A6 for 3dsmax.That version still delivers awesome quality :- )