Improved Sun & Sky model playground!

[maru]

From the Corona Renderer 6 Daily Builds Changelog:

• Implemented new and improved Sun & Sky model
  • Supports sun below horizon
  • Current version does not support turbidity, but it will be added in next iteration of this model
  • Can be selected by using "Improved" sky model in CoronaSky map (this is now the default)
  • Can be selected by unchecking the "Use legacy color" checkbox in CoronaSun (legacy mode is available only in old scenes)

Give it a try and share your results!
Download here: [link]

Disclaimer: it looks crazy good. Keep that in mind!

[Vlad_the_rant]

Here's two animation tests I did with the new sky and sun model:

[Nejc Kilar]

Here's two animation tests I did with the new sky and sun model:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xr96fujtqb3qmb/Sunrise_test_1____0000.avi?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hpd33oswllkc8a/sea_anim_1__0000.avi?dl=0

These looks really awesome, thanks for sharing! Might be a while till we get these in the C4D plugin (and thats ok) but it look mightily improved!

[Fluss]

Wow that horizon looks insane! have to try that out

[Nejc Kilar]

It looks crazy good. There has to be a disclaimer to this :D

[maru]

It looks crazy good. There has to be a disclaimer to this :D

Added.

[Nejc Kilar]

It looks crazy good. There has to be a disclaimer to this :D

Added.

Haha, one can always count on Maru to deliver a couple of laughs! I think I'll give it a twirl in 3ds Max, I still have a couple of days of subscription left. That animation seriously looks amazing.

[GeorgeK]

Different phases and some light play with the new improved skymodel.

Comparisons:
https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/RkLZqP
https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/xPTWWc
https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/AC7NJc

[Fluss]

can confirm, the disclaimer makes sense

[romullus]

Wow, those comparisons with the old model, looks crazy.

[smadiswelem]

wooooooooooooooooooooooow amazing and tasty

[Ondra]

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

[Fluss]

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

Wasn't even expecting clouds so if there are researches in this sense that's awesome news! I'm so envious of Terragen skies. We're now halfway there, adding clouds would be insane! Good job guys

[Nejc Kilar]

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

When better gets even better, awesome!

[v.p.vlasenko]

New sky model looks fantastic, sunset renders overcame my expectations.

But... I can't get same images as GeorgeK posted. In my case sunset images with the same sun positions looks redder/yellow, without blue sky on sides. I can get something similar setting quite low exposure, FOV more than 70-90 and with some LUts. Is it the case? Would you mind sharing setup?


And I saw "Altitude" parameter and Comes with fog/aerial perspective in Trello, what about these?

[TomG]

Altitude etc. not implemented at the moment.

Shouldn't be any settings, other than choosing the Improved model in the sky (and disabling Legacy Colors in the sun, and perhaps checking Textured in the sun too if you want the color banding in the sun itself)

[Ondra]

altitude and fog will be also added in next iteration

[arqrenderz]

wow is a word for this. Great job!  looking forward that v6!

[Nejc Kilar]

New sky model looks fantastic, sunset renders overcame my expectations.

But... I can't get same images as GeorgeK posted. In my case sunset images with the same sun positions looks redder/yellow, without blue sky on sides. I can get something similar setting quite low exposure, FOV more than 70-90 and with some LUts. Is it the case? Would you mind sharing setup?


And I saw "Altitude" parameter and Comes with fog/aerial perspective in Trello, what about these?

If I may venture a guess, given the shift in colors it could be Dubcat's LUT at play here (photographic).

[jms.lwly]

Wow - looks a solid upgrade! Just completed a small project which had different times of day using Sun/Sky... now I have to redo it!

[smadiswelem]

altitude and fog will be also added in next iteration...
 you mean in next daily build?

[rozpustelnik]

At last! Yaaaaaay!

Now I wait only for aerial perspective and altitude settings!

Great work Corona Team!

[romullus]

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

Wasn't even expecting clouds so if there are researches in this sense that's awesome news! I'm so envious of Terragen skies. We're now halfway there, adding clouds would be insane! Good job guys

I guess what Ondra means, is the clouds affecting skylight, but not actual clouds being simulated and rendered like in Vue or Terragen.

[romullus]

Now I wait only for aerial perspective and altitude settings!

It looks that you also need CoronaOcean™ :]

[NicolasC]

Really amazed by the new sky system ... great, great job, guys !!

[Ondra]

altitude and fog will be also added in next iteration...
 you mean in next daily build?

unfortunately not, we are targetting may or june

[GeorgeK]

New sky model looks fantastic, sunset renders overcame my expectations.

But... I can't get same images as GeorgeK posted. In my case sunset images with the same sun positions looks redder/yellow, without blue sky on sides. I can get something similar setting quite low exposure, FOV more than 70-90 and with some LUts. Is it the case? Would you mind sharing setup?


And I saw "Altitude" parameter and Comes with fog/aerial perspective in Trello, what about these?

New sky model looks fantastic, sunset renders overcame my expectations.

But... I can't get same images as GeorgeK posted. In my case sunset images with the same sun positions looks redder/yellow, without blue sky on sides. I can get something similar setting quite low exposure, FOV more than 70-90 and with some LUts. Is it the case? Would you mind sharing setup?


And I saw "Altitude" parameter and Comes with fog/aerial perspective in Trello, what about these?

If I may venture a guess, given the shift in colors it could be Dubcat's LUT at play here (photographic).

That is correct for the sea-phases strip I used  Kim Amland's 02, for the more red ones I went a bit overboard with Kodachrome25.

[rozpustelnik]

Now I wait only for aerial perspective and altitude settings!

It looks that you also need CoronaOcean™ :]

Joke (I see what You did here) aside - CoronaOcean or Corona Infinite Plane would be AWESOME!

[Fluss]

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

Wasn't even expecting clouds so if there are researches in this sense that's awesome news! I'm so envious of Terragen skies. We're now halfway there, adding clouds would be insane! Good job guys

I guess what Ondra means, is the clouds affecting skylight, but not actual clouds being simulated and rendered like in Vue or Terragen.

ho ok my bad!

[davemahi]

What about adding a sky and Cloud model to this? SO its not just a perfect clear sky?

[cecofuli]

What about adding a sky and Cloud model to this? SO its not just a perfect clear sky?

Search in Youtube

Opening Keynote | Total Chaos 2019

14 min 50 sec

[Fluss]

What about adding a sky and Cloud model to this? SO its not just a perfect clear sky?

Search in Youtube

Opening Keynote | Total Chaos 2019

14 min 50 sec

Thx... I had to watch the whole stuff again 😆
Great reminder, I forgot that part.

[pressenter]

Have to say that this thing works really well. Great job guys!

[maru]

What about adding a sky and Cloud model to this? SO its not just a perfect clear sky?

No disclaimer other than it does not support clouds. We are still running the separate research project on that one.

[Vlad_the_rant]

Some more playing around with the sun and sky (and also CoronaVolumeMtl for fog). The water is PhoenixFD in "pure ocean" mode.

[GeorgeK]

Updating the thread too, with some WIPS for showcasing, zero post-production as always.

[romullus]

Could you please stop showing off your vacation photos and get back to work? :]

[Buzzz]

Hi GeorgeK, great work!

Would you be willing to share the scene to run some tests?

[GeorgeK]

Could you please stop showing off your vacation photos and get back to work? :]

Flattered :), but summer is coming gotta built morale!

Hi GeorgeK, great work!

Would you be willing to share the scene to run some tests?

I will have to get back on you with that (it's not just up to me). Frankly, it's just a water material with oceanFD and the new skymodel, nothing really complex.

[Buzzz]

Could you please stop showing off your vacation photos and get back to work? :]

Flattered :)

Hi GeorgeK, great work!

Would you be willing to share the scene to run some tests?

I will have to get back on you with that (it's not just up to me). Frankly, it's just a water material with oceanFD and the new skymodel, nothing really complex.

Thank you!

[pokoy]

I just love all the examples - great work!

[smadiswelem]

but its possible to make clear blue sky?

[jms.lwly]

Didn't have time to play with it too much (maybe more tomorrow) - but super impressed with it so far!

[tradstown]

Great results, impressive sky model! But does "density" parameter will be added to the Sun light model? I mean, will we have option to add softness to the sun light as shown on image?

[VASLAVO]

Hi guys, i made this test and try to add some cluds, i think im doing something wrong, the new sun its great

[TomG]

Depends how the clouds were made - if an object with displacement and Inside Mode CoronaVolume, that can end up with overlapping faces and you may want to try the legacy medium resolving rather than the new (you'd have to disable it in the Devel/Experimental section). But, this may not apply if you used some other technique for the clouds - let us know.

[VASLAVO]

thanks, was that exactly, overlapping faces when displacement, will try what you suggest, iwill let you know

[Jens]

"Selection of the sun for the sky model computation has changed for scenes having multiple suns"

- how are we to understand this? I had hoped it would mean the sky would change and match the active sun in the lightmix, but I still get a static sky only matching the first sun. Only way to get correct sky with multiple suns seems to be if I manually turn off all other suns on each sun object in the scene (not via lightmix).
(This was in scene with prev. daily, but I have changed both sky model and ticked off the "legacy" texture in each sun object).

[Ondra]

we will consider implementing this as the next step, the first change was due to internal rewrite how sun vs. sky is handled

[Jens]

we will consider implementing this as the next step, the first change was due to internal rewrite how sun vs. sky is handled

ah okay, thanks for the reply Ondra. Would love to see this for ultimate flexibility - would I be wrong to assume that this could also lead to later implementation of getting correct results in i.e. the reflection pass etc when using lightmix w. multiple suns?

[jms.lwly]

Someone wanted to see some clouds.
(Edited because of errors with the upload...)

[TomG]

Ahh so many clouds I can't see the images! (somehow they aren't showing for me :( )

[vansan]

Tried OpenVDB clouds inside global volume with CoronaVolumeMtl.
VERY slow rendering speed with some sort of artifacts (CoronaVolumeMtl don't render behind OpenVDB cloud's gizmo).
Maybe I just don't know how to setup them? :/

Added test without Global volume material.

[Feodor]

The very best realistic sky happened!
No HDR, only new sky and volumetric clouds.

[Feodor]

Clouds

[romullus]

Looks nice. Are clouds VDB, or regular geometry? And what's that white line over the horizon?

[GeorgeK]

Clouds

Looks nice. Are clouds VDB, or regular geometry? And what's that white line over the horizon?

Love the clouds too welldone!

[cjwidd]

Did a series of tests for a simple scene using some permutations of the sun / sky model between v5 and v6. Images 1,2,3,4 are yoked to 5,6,7,8 for comparison.

Camera
FoV: 23.913 / Focal Length [mm]: 85.0
F-Stop: 16.0

Sun
Intensity: 1.0
Size: 64

Tonemapping


Hosek & Wilkie - sun (realistic) + sky (sat)


Hosek & Wilkie - sun (realistic) + sky (desat)


Hosek & Wilkie - sun (FFFFFF) + sky (sat)


Hosek & Wilkie - sun (FFFFFF) + sky (desat)



Improved - sun (realistic) + sky (sat)


Improved - sun (realistic) + sky (desat)


Improved - sun (FFFFFF) + sky (sat)


Improved - sun (FFFFFF) + sky (desat)

[Feodor]

Looks nice. Are clouds VDB, or regular geometry? And what's that white line over the horizon?

Yes I used VDB clouds, the sky is completely procedural
The line on the horizon is not yet clear to me artifact. Since the scene has a geometry that simulates the refraction of air probably because of her there is a line

[romullus]

[..] the scene has a geometry that simulates the refraction of air [..]

Interesting. Does that makes any difference appart from render time (presumably)?

[Feodor]

Interesting. Does that makes any difference appart from render time (presumably)?

A thin dome with refraction that simulates the movement of air. Almost no resources are required for this compared to Volume clouds.

[pietro3d]

Hi guys, i made this test and try to add some cluds, i think im doing something wrong, the new sun its great

very nice sun. How did you make sun disappear behind the horizont?
Solved set Textured inside sun.

[Neil Cross]

Hi, Great job on the new sun & sky model corona team.

I think I may have found a bug. Moving the sun in the viewport updates the sky perfectly in IR
However an animated sun in IR does not update the sky when switching keyframes. Iv attached a gif to get a better understanding.

[GeorgeK]

Hi, Great job on the new sun & sky model corona team.

I think I may have found a bug. Moving the sun in the viewport updates the sky perfectly in IR
However an animated sun in IR does not update the sky when switching keyframes. Iv attached a gif to get a better understanding.

Hi Neil, we are aware of the issue and it's been already looked into.

(internal id=502156952)

[rowmanns]

Hi, Great job on the new sun & sky model corona team.

I think I may have found a bug. Moving the sun in the viewport updates the sky perfectly in IR
However an animated sun in IR does not update the sky when switching keyframes. Iv attached a gif to get a better understanding.

Hi Neil, we are aware of the issue and it's been already looked into.

(internal id=502156952)

Yeah, we have fixed it already and it will be in the next daily.

[Эдуард]

3D max crashes I can not start the render.

[romullus]

3D max crashes I can not start the render.

Please read this https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=22608.0

[Patrickm]

Hi Guys, Really great job with the new sky model! Hopefully going to get to test it out more on an upcoming project.

[NeTz3d]

Hi!
Congratulations on the new features are very nice!
I would like to know if it is possible and how to put a panel with an exterior photo applied without being influenced by the sun because in most of my productions I adopt this system. With the last beta I can't wait for the desired result, I tried to remove the panel from the sun, place it behind the physical sun and remove from the projection of the shadows in its properties of the object but nothing.
Is there a specific system to solve the problem? is it a bag you need to solve?
I thought that, since the system will be physically correct, by putting any object on the direction of the sun, this will be hidden, ok .... but in this way you will no longer be able to insert backgrounds photographed directly in the render.
Thanks for your help.
Tiziano

[maru]

Hi!
Congratulations on the new features are very nice!
I would like to know if it is possible and how to put a panel with an exterior photo applied without being influenced by the sun because in most of my productions I adopt this system. With the last beta I can't wait for the desired result, I tried to remove the panel from the sun, place it behind the physical sun and remove from the projection of the shadows in its properties of the object but nothing.
Is there a specific system to solve the problem? is it a bag you need to solve?
I thought that, since the system will be physically correct, by putting any object on the direction of the sun, this will be hidden, ok .... but in this way you will no longer be able to insert backgrounds photographed directly in the render.
Thanks for your help.
Tiziano

I am not sure if I understood your message, but I think this is what you are looking for:
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000515605

[robpayne]

Might be a while till we get these in the C4D plugin (and thats ok) but it look mightily improved!

I can’t help but feel like a second class citizen when I read comments like this. It’s disappointing we’re so far from feature parity across the plugins, despite costing the same.

[PROH]

@robpayne - I don't get your point. 3dsMax users payed  the same as you do when we had the same features as you do have now. Should we suddenly feel cheated now, because we got new stuff without paying more?

Besides that, Corona for 3dsMax has bee developed several years longer than Corona for C4D.

[Jpjapers]

This may have been asked already, but does this new sun/sky system  mean that all the HDRI that were recalibrated to coronas sun/sky intensity will be incorrect?

[PROH]

I don't think so. The intensity hasn't changed.

[marchik]

please clarify the following thing for me, as I understand the turbidity setting is not available only at the moment and will be added later? and at the moment, if you want to make the sky more cloudy, then you need to use the Hosek & Wilkie model?

[romullus]

I don't think that turbidity has anything to do with clouds. AFAIK it represents polution of the atmosphere. If you want to simulate cloudy lighting condition, you can decrease sun's intensity and/or increase its size to get softer, less pronounced shadows.

[PROH]

I find that high turbidity settings gives less pronounced shadows + a more "bluish" tone. But we are talking 8 and higher. I often set this to 8,5 or 9,5 giving a more overcast feeling.

And yes it's correct that this can't be done with the new improved sky ATM.

[Jpjapers]

I find that high turbidity settings gives less pronounced shadows + a more "bluish" tone. But we are talking 8 and higher. I often set this to 8,5 or 9,5 giving a more overcast feeling.

And yes it's correct that this can't be done with the new improved sky ATM.

I use the same method, turbidity between 6 and 10 to vary different levels of overcastyness. Sometimes at 10 with no direct sun for those scandinavian AF looks.

[marchik]

I find that high turbidity settings gives less pronounced shadows + a more "bluish" tone. But we are talking 8 and higher. I often set this to 8,5 or 9,5 giving a more overcast feeling.

And yes it's correct that this can't be done with the new improved sky ATM.

I use the same method, turbidity between 6 and 10 to vary different levels of overcastyness. Sometimes at 10 with no direct sun for those scandinavian AF looks.

yes, this is exactly my approach, I hope this can be reached in V6 somehow)

[Dalton Watts]

Any of you guys noticed an increase in rendertime between the new sky and the old one?

[rowmanns]

Any of you guys noticed an increase in rendertime between the new sky and the old one?

Hi,

Can you provide a scene where this is the case? And we will look into and see if anything can be done.

Thanks,

Rowan

[Dalton Watts]

Hi Rowan!

I will try to do some testing today. A few days ago it "seemed" there was an increase in render times but I can't confirm before proper testing.

[Dalton Watts]

Ok, done very few tests and it seems render times stay the same if turbidity is set to the default 2.5 (i guess that is the default value, right?). Preetham was about 1% faster which is irrelevant in this case.

I must say though that the new sky seems to have a much warmer and pleasant tone that Hosek or Preetham. Is there any special reason why it is that way?

Hosek:



Preetham:



New Improved:

[TomG]

Well, the special reason is just that was the thing with the previous sky calculations, they were not always the nicest (Hosek seems to be slightly greenish if I remember rightly). So, that's just one of the things different about the new system - it's not just about when the sun goes below the horizon, it's just better in general for all times of day :)

[Dalton Watts]

That's right Tom. All tests above were done without using the sun and the warmer tone is still very visible. No more messing around with turbidity to get that look ;-)

[TomG]

One of the reasons for making the change to the new calculations :)

[Dionysios.TS]

Hi!

I don't know if I am missing something...
You lately speak about turbidity but in my case when I use the new and improved Sky model, the turbidity value is grayed out.
I thought was something we will get again in the near future.

Last daily build is installed here.

Thanks,

Dionysios -

[TomG]

The plan is that it will be added again, but there was never a timescale mentioned - e.g. not for Corona 6 as far as I know.

[Correntes]

The plan is that it will be added again, but there was never a timescale mentioned - e.g. not for Corona 6 as far as I know.

So until then the only option is to use corona color correct texmap ?

[Rhodesy]

The new sky feels quite pale to me. Will the turbidity allow for a richer blue? Im currently switching between a clear blue pg skies hdri and the corona sun/sky and the latter is much more washed out and creates a flatter image out of the box without additional tone mapping. Good idea to use the colour correct node, does that effect performance?

[pokoy]

The new sky feels quite pale to me. Will the turbidity allow for a richer blue? Im currently switching between a clear blue pg skies hdri and the corona sun/sky and the latter is much more washed out and creates a flatter image out of the box without additional tone mapping. Good idea to use the colour correct node, does that effect performance?

Turbidity will probably make it less blue since it adds atmosphere fog/humidity. How blue the sky appears depends a lot on the viewing angle and fov. Sky is mostly dull towards the horizon, and if you use a tele lens it might turn out as light blue in such situations.
You can use a color corrected version of the same sky map in the background override only if it helps, make sure to instance it so it uses the exact same map.

[Rhodesy]

I suppose if we could consider the current sky system as a mid point in terms of turbidity in the slider, I'm assuming we could always reduce the amount of turbidity to create that pure blue sky? Its true about the field of view making a difference and the location of the sun in the sky but its in the reflections of glass and metals that a sky with the option of a bolder colour tone would really benefit.

By increasing the colour saturation in the colour correct node for the sky it can bring out other colours like a pink band which is undesirable so hopefully a new system will negate the need to do this.

Trying to get a sky as rich as the attached photo is a struggle with the current system so hopefully the turbidity slider will solve this.

[pokoy]

If I remember correctly, the new OSL color correct map has an option to color correct only certain hues, might be worth trying if you're on Max 2019+... not sure if it really does this, though.

Another thing, but it depends on how true to world the new sky model is, the sky is always darker in opposition to the sun. It's the same in your example, the sun is behind the camera, lit objects are brighter causing shorter exposure/closing the aperture and making the sky darker/richer in return.

One important aspect to remember is tone mapping and color processing. The blue will vary depending on camera manufacturer/model so the result of what your camera 'sees' is pretty much an arbitrary decision made by the manufacturer. It can't really look the way colors are because they are interpreted by the camera's hardware and software. Even if the 'spectral color' in the photo and the sky map were the same you would not get the same output from the renderer unless all the color math is identical. That's why tone mapping and LUTs are such a vital part of the color discussion.

However, I totally see why you want to do this... Yeah, keying out certain hues and being able to color correct them is important every now and then.