Chaos Corona Forum

Chaos Scatter => [Scatter] 3ds Max - Bug Reporting => Topic started by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-09, 12:20:56

Title: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-09, 12:20:56
Hi guys,

First of all, VV Corona 3 !! The real time denoising stuff is amazing!!

I had just one issue, placing my first corona scatters....
It seems that the new Cscatter uses the original scale( 100 / 100 / 100 ) and rotation (0/0/0) of the distributed objects so i can not change any more the size of my scattered objects direclty by scaling the original one, i have to enter in sub poly mode and change directly in the sub object.
It means also that if im using Cproxies, and want to rescale one of them in my scatter i have to reexport a new proxy?? not so efficient...

Im the only one having this problem, it is normal ?
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: maru on 2019-01-09, 14:43:05
But you can rescale the scattered objects from within scatter, using the scaling parameters (e.g. set min and max scale to 150% or 25%) - right?
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-09, 19:42:23
Of course Maru, i can, but if i want to change the proportion between my scattered objects  i have to do as i said before ( sub poly or create new rescaled proxy ... )
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-09, 20:00:26
In fact, it is something extremely annoying,i can not even use corona scatter this way
I have to use my old laggy multiscatter ... slows down too much the viewport and the active shading
(on max 2018 i have a superoptimised 60 MB file with five multiscatter objects - 3000 objects scattered on each ), should not go like a snail on 128 GB / 1080 TI/ i9 ...

any idea on solving it?
the only thing i need is to scale my original scattered object and it scales everywhere in the scatter "instancedly"- like before :(
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: romullus on 2019-01-09, 21:48:42
This is not a bug, but actually great improvement of Cscatter!

To scale individual instanced objects, you can add xform modifier on top and scale/rotate/translate through it. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with proxies, so maybe there's a place for feature request to implement transformation adjustments directly in proxy UI? For now, workaround would be to convert proxy to mesh and use xform modifier - you don't need proxies with Cscatter anyway.
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-10, 10:38:43
Hi Romullus,

Could you explain why is it a "great" improvement? Aren't we agree that the efficienty was waay better only by grabbing the object scale, rotate or whatever...  it requires at least 3 more clicks x 20 scattered objects... :) but beside jokes if i have like 20 plants to scatter ( lets say 100 MB each ) i can not give up all my proxies - duplicate them to mesh - and have a 2gb  .max file for god's sake! Saving time and even worth, autosave time could increase insanely!!! In my work flow , to be the more efficient, i found that i have to KEEP LOW file size, n° of poly-s etc etc, i like to work, not to wait! And again, im on I9 1080TI x 2 128RAM so can not really boost more my working environnement.. :)

So what do you mean by  "you don't need proxies with Cscatter anyway " ?
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: romullus on 2019-01-10, 10:52:31
Because before, when cScatter took instanced objects' transformations into consideration, it was unbearingly slow to work in viewport, previewing animations was completely impossible. Last time i checked, it was much better, but still not ideal - translations still affected scatterer, but that was few months ago, maybe now it is completely fixed.

Quote from: tmsfischer on 2019-01-10, 10:38:43
So what do you mean by  "you don't need proxies with Cscatter anyway " ?

Well, if you can't afford to have even single mesh instance in your scene, then yes, that might be an issue. I will submit a request about transformations in proxy UI.
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-11, 10:10:23
I see Romullus, thank you for your answer! I did have this issue as well with scattered animated instances, in fact, so i got it now!

But anyway, having a little transformation slider in Cproxy parameters, would be awesome!
Cheers
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: SnifferCZ on 2019-01-11, 15:49:41
The CSatter transformations were modified in the new version so that the transformation of the object did not affect the scattered objects. IMHO is so right, if it does not affect rotation and movement, neither the scale can influence. That it does so multisacatter is no excuse :)

If you want to change the scale, you can use the scatter functions directly.

If you want to scale a source object with an influence on scatter objects, you have to do it at the polygon/mesh level

For Corona proxy objects, this is unfortunately not possible. Hopefully Corona team will fix this soon.
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: tmsfischer on 2019-01-11, 17:20:34
In fact, would be nice to have an option, either affect scattered object transform or not  in scatter settings...

IMO this update affects too much the workflow of some users (like me :( ). Personnally I created my whole library  ( my speedtree vegetation lib, my object lib etc ) through 5 years and as i create everything by myself the scale is not always correct (naturally ), and also each project needs some light adjustement regarding to the proportion between scattered objects...

with this new workflow i would have to review my whole library, create a "basic scale" version of my proxies and hope not to need some of these objects in bigger or smaller version in the same scatter...   

so i repeat myself, translation sliders in Cproxy properties would be essential, please CORONA TEAM, do something!
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: maru on 2019-01-18, 10:43:30
As already mentioned, it is now expected that scaling/rotating the original object will not affect the scattered objects. From V3 changelog:

This may be sometimes unwanted, so we will think about improving it (I think "consider original object transforms" checkbox makes sense).
Also, scaling for CProxy is a good idea.
Logged both feature request.

(internal note id=309731780 and id=309734046)
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: romullus on 2019-01-18, 12:04:25
maru, i already made request for proxys transforms, so you may want to remove my topic as duplicate: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=23231.0
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: louisryko on 2019-06-12, 10:58:51
Whatever happened with this issue. Would really like to be able to edit scale (and pivot points) of CProxy objects for scattering...
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: maru on 2021-11-23, 13:04:50
This is one of the features of Chaos Scatter and you will be able to try it in the upcoming daily build.
More info on Chaos Scatter and Corona 8 in general: https://blog.corona-renderer.com/corona-in-2022-new-features-visuals-licensing-and-more/
Title: Re: Corona scatter SCALE ROTATE distributed objects ??
Post by: mike288 on 2021-12-07, 17:10:29
Hi, you can check out the new Chaos Scatter that has been just added to the latest Corona 8 daily build (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=33839.msg192647#msg192647).