A warning to all CG newbies.

[K u r a i]

Are you ignoring my question kurai?

I think I explained myself in my reply to Keymaster. I am not talking about knowledge, though people seem to defend it with such zeal. I am talking about communication and courtesy.
What I wrote was not personal. I did not name Sites or Blogs and I understood that what I wrote would get a hostile response. That's the nature of the internet.

I live in Egypt and have witnessed a very bloody revolution right at my door. That is the real world. Us talking on this Forum is not real at all. We have never met.... and we can say anything we like without consequence. They say that the internet is a full contact sport... but if anyone spoke to me badly in the street I would not react kindly. But people know they can get away with it on the net and act however they like.

BTW - nobody has ever taught me anything on the net that has changed my workflow. But, people have given me lots of support and encouragement....for free.... cos that's what people do.... like I said... when it's part of their nature to do so :)


 



 

 

[maru]

All I would like to say here is:
-you can usually find most ui/workflow/tool answers and step-by-step instructions by using basic googling skills, there is absolutely no need to send emails to unknown people
-you can still use forums or chats where people meet to discuss stuff, just leave a message and wait for answers
-I'm not even necessarily referring to 3d stuff here as I am no professional, but if an unknown person sent me an e-mail concerning any matter, and I would not reply, I wouldn't feel guilty or anything, as Kurai states multiple times - you have your right to choose and justify your decision with any, even least important cause.

Oh god, I can't believe I joined this thread. This is no good.

[K u r a i]

pfff,

I hate it too that people don't take the effort to look for info by them selves. You can find a lot on the internet: blog tutorials, .....
Some of them are quite old, but still usefull. If you want to know how to use MAX, look for tuts or buy the books from Ted Boardman, no one can better explain how to use max.
There is a search bar here on this forum. If I read what people dare to post, you see that they are to lazy to search for info.

So I only can agree with Juraj and Keymaster ans hope they keep up the good work!!

Thanks. Try doing that in Egypt. There are no books on CG. No DVD's. And expats like myself are not given credit cards. So... I have to rely on peoples good nature and YOUTUBE.
And... if I was going to take your words literally then YOU yourself should never, ever ask a question about CG on this site or any other. In fact, if you followed your own advice
and NOT use the internet for help.... this site.... all sites.... all software, would cease to exist. The internet was built on communication.

Come on guys. Your not making any sense. Your talking about withholding info like you own it.... ha ha....  if you have a dictionary... do you own the rights to the human language.
We are talking about software here. I have designed all over the world but I don't say to my clients I am going to design this for them, but I am not going to give them any ideas cos I
went to college, then university, and worked at design companies for many years. I give my knowledge freely.... cos it engenders trust and builds friendship. It's a two way thing.

You guys take yourselves too seriously. I am knew to CG but I have been a designer all my life since I was 16 and know I am 47 and designed all over the world.

SO, FOR THOSE THAT MIS-UNDERSTOOD MY WORDS, I WILL SAY THIS SIMPLY... IF I WRITE AN EMAIL TO SOMEONE IT IS A FRIENDLY COURTESY BETWEEN DESIGNERS.
I DO NOT DO IT TO POACH KNOWLEDGE FOR SELFISH REASONS. IT IS THE FIRST STEP IN AN ACT OF FRIENDSHIP. Case closed :)))

[K u r a i]

All I would like to say here is:
-you can usually find most ui/workflow/tool answers and step-by-step instructions by using basic googling skills, there is absolutely no need to send emails to unknown people
-you can still use forums or chats where people meet to discuss stuff, just leave a message and wait for answers
-I'm not even necessarily referring to 3d stuff here as I am no professional, but if an unknown person sent me an e-mail concerning any matter, and I would not reply, I wouldn't feel guilty or anything, as Kurai states multiple times - you have your right to choose and justify your decision with any, even least important cause.

Oh god, I can't believe I joined this thread. This is no good.

I am sorry for writing it. Administrators, please delete this thread. It's become toxic :(

[K u r a i]

@Kurai
To many words and assumptions. Young are you in mind and soul. Learn to love thy enemy, till there's none left.
Patience, will and modesty... will bring answers that are in you.
Master serves only self and by that he is serving many. Or in other words - Only joyful can and will bring joy.

Ps
Snob is a mere human in fear and pain who cannot recognize the source within self. Thus making self an animal. Being of just meat, body, mater.
I don't feel you, am only an answer to an abstract i assume as another confused entity.

@Juraj & Keymaster
Respect

I like this comment. It's the first time someone has said something meaninful. I will go away "Burnin" and heed your words. There is too much hostility here and not enough wisdom.

[Juraj]

You are misunderstanding or ignoring the counter-arguments. No one is saying knowledge shouldn't be shared, but you demand it in aggressive and impatient way, like it is any privilege and right to receive answer without taking
into account any realities of those you're asking and then projecting negative attributes to those based on pure and faulty assumption.

This thread imho should not be deleted because it illustrates quite few issues that exist in what is rather young industry and its community.

If there is any negativity it's the one you started the thread with and now you've become sensitive to rather rational answers.

[Ondra]

I will keep the thread (only maybe lock it if it will turn into personal bashing). There are some interesting points in the last page and half

[wildbunny]

How many emails like yours do you think they get each and every day??? It's practically impossible to reply to everyone (I assume, since I don't have a popular blog/web site). Try to put yourself in this position. A random internet guy sends an email asking basic stuff... Really???

[greysheep5]

Well, Juraj, we only defend something that's not true. And you have gone to great length in painting my words in a bad light.
I did not mention any names of Blogs or people. But since you have gone on your orange box about this I will be terse.

Courtesy costs nothing. If you do not respond to four email then you have chosen to do so. You have decided that it is unworthy of your time to respond.
This is your choice. But you should change your email address from: sayhello@jurajtalcik.com to something closer to the truth.

BTW. I am the opposite of what you feel I am. I go to great lengths to always put myself in other peoples shoes and write good things about there work. My only crime is that I share an interest in CG. Surely, this is worthy of some respect?
I don't think selfish is apart of my persona. I actually like people. I just dislike snobs :)

I think you should re-read your response. Your the one who comes across as selfish. You say things with such venom. I cannot believe I wrote to you.... but, I must admit... your work is brilliant :)

Well Kurai, i don´t quite get you either... I mean be honest, it´s a wonder that people even find the time to answer any mails they get from strangers. for questions, that´s what also forums are for. I might have a strange perspective as i learned 3d in a time when there was no such thing as blogs for everything, from the late 90s/early2000s on, when i was 18 and just out of school. And people used to learn it anyway if they were dedicated. i love to answer questions (should anyone have them) from time to time, but do you know what it´s like to have a functioning business as well as trying to have a bit of a good work/life balance?

i learned 3d parallel to studying architecture, and then in 2010, when i was in my 10th year of studying here in vienna, and working parallel all the time in offices as well as freelancing in 3d archviz stuff (i taught myself with friends), we founded our own company. this stuff can take time and commitment, blogs and mails can ease the learing curve and time, but yeah... it takes time. so anyway, i don´t want to insult anyone especially not you or any beginner (why would one do that?), but you also have to get the perspective of the people being bombarded with questions all the time!

cheers,

chris.

[lasse1309]

hola,

well i am pretty sure i am not really adressed with the term "elite" but after i have some experience in sharing and "blogging" (whatever this is) i'd like to add my two cents to this discussion.

we run a small side-site "xoio-air.de" on which we share stuff with the world, like textures, cutout people, modells. For free, because we like to "give something back". and because we like the positvistic spirit it injects. this is very good.

I also love talking gigabyte and nerding, really a passion. And I also answer emails. Funniest was not even 3d-related. Someone asked whether one of my images really is a render and if not where he can buy a bicycle in that copper material.. Of course I answered, but i dont get that many emails - or better put: I only get them when our secretary forwards the email to me. I don't get the general "info@" email. why?
Besides all the stuff mentioning above and the joy of giving I also have to pick up my kids and want to have a private life. I don't want to be bothered with obscene project-inquiries that never happen becasue of absurd conditions, I also don't want to explain someone he would have to turn on GI to get rid of the black shadows.

There are good questions and stupid questions, I love answering good ones.
As Juraj puts it right: People are only obliged to death and taxes. And He's a good guy, no need to attack him.  :D

with love
lasse

[Ondra]

My funniest emails were concerning my fractal works (http://keymastercz.deviantart.com/gallery/).

One guy asked me who told me to make the fractals, what formulas did I use, if they were my idea, etc. etc. etc... because they supposedly contain some secret messages about founding of Jerusalem.

Other guy told me that he wants me to develop a fractal for him that will provide free energy, unite elementary forces, or do some other physics breakthrough. I am still not sure how one would go around doing that while rendering a fractal, but he apparently knew...

[K u r a i]

You are misunderstanding or ignoring the counter-arguments. No one is saying knowledge shouldn't be shared, but you demand it in aggressive and impatient way, like it is any privilege and right to receive answer without taking
into account any realities of those you're asking and then projecting negative attributes to those based on pure and faulty assumption.

This thread imho should not be deleted because it illustrates quite few issues that exist in what is rather young industry and its community.

If there is any negativity it's the one you started the thread with and now you've become sensitive to rather rational answers.

I want to apologise to you and the CG world for anything that I said you felt was wrong. It is something that has accumulated for 6 months and I just had to get it out.
SO PLEASE, CORONA FORUM (and especially Juraj and the Keymaster from the Matrix) PLEASE EXCEPT MY APOLOGISE. I AM AN IDIOT :)))

I just want you to know something. I am 47 and only discovered CG in the last two years. I first discovered Sketchup and then Vray and than Max and now Corona. It's been hard guys. If I was back
in the UK I could get tuition.... but not in Egypt. So, I beg for scraps of info. I am a CG Beggar :) Please take pitty. And thankyou for people offering help.

I must also add that I was the black sheep of Art College for being rebellious. It's still in my nature....so I have to throw stones from time to time.... cos it makes me feel alive. Last thing I want to do is write threads about
how wonderful everyone is.... that's fake.... like FaceBook.... I hav'nt got 255 friends.... it's not real... what I have got though is a desire for knowledge.....ha, ha, ha....(evil laugh). So lets not kid ourselves here. You CG guys don't hold
the secret of the Universe.... so get off your thrones.... and throw a few scraps to old folks like myself.

[elindell]

There are people who love to help, and there are people who have amazing technical/artistic knowledge, these circles don't always overlap

K u r a i, you sound like there's some big conspiracy to keep new people from learning CG, in fact I see the opposite there are so many avenues for learning these days its overwhelming. I kinda feel like I'm in the middle of being a newbie and being the "elite" you mention, a spot I kinda like as I see so many inspiring artists that I'm trying to get to that level, but also over the hump of learning the basics and I'm starting to gain confidence in my ability to create. So I understand the frustration of the newbie, sometimes you don't even know how to phrase the question you want to ask or you read a tutorial that glosses over a step that the author takes for granted that the reader knows. On the other hand being asked how to do a simple such and such task for the hundredth time in a week is probably annoying.

Why are you privately emailing people? Ask on the forum, if you have a question someone else probably does too, and sometimes a stranger you weren't expecting will come to your rescue. It also helps the future newbies.

side rant you know what is annoying? Those guys who post a question online then suddenly say they figured it out without explaining their discovery, come on! 

I think the biggest problem with asking other for their workflows is that it sort of stamps into your mind that "this is how this is done" but you don't really know why. I guess my advice for any newbies is be methodical with the software, experiment and fail often. If something doesn't make sense simplify the problem down to a single variable. You have to be a scientist. As a last resort I will ask online for help, don't expect any answers and be grateful for any that come (and how many times I've asked a question only to figure it out right after, doh! )

Anyway good luck.

[Stan_But]

sorry but maybe we must to move the topic to "Off-Topic"?

oh ... or maybe to "I NEED help!!!!!!!"? (;
 

[K u r a i]

There are people who love to help, and there are people who have amazing technical/artistic knowledge, these circles don't always overlap

K u r a i, you sound like there's some big conspiracy to keep new people from learning CG, in fact I see the opposite there are so many avenues for learning these days its overwhelming. I kinda feel like I'm in the middle of being a newbie and being the "elite" you mention, a spot I kinda like as I see so many inspiring artists that I'm trying to get to that level, but also over the hump of learning the basics and I'm starting to gain confidence in my ability to create. So I understand the frustration of the newbie, sometimes you don't even know how to phrase the question you want to ask or you read a tutorial that glosses over a step that the author takes for granted that the reader knows. On the other hand being asked how to do a simple such and such task for the hundredth time in a week is probably annoying.

Why are you privately emailing people? Ask on the forum, if you have a question someone else probably does too, and sometimes a stranger you weren't expecting will come to your rescue. It also helps the future newbies.

side rant you know what is annoying? Those guys who post a question online then suddenly say they figured it out without explaining their discovery, come on! 

I think the biggest problem with asking other for their workflows is that it sort of stamps into your mind that "this is how this is done" but you don't really know why. I guess my advice for any newbies is be methodical with the software, experiment and fail often. If something doesn't make sense simplify the problem down to a single variable. You have to be a scientist. As a last resort I will ask online for help, don't expect any answers and be grateful for any that come (and how many times I've asked a question only to figure it out right after, doh! )

Anyway good luck.

Thanks for the reply..... and guess what.... that guy that posts a quesyion on a forum and then writes another saying they have solved it.... that's me :) Sorry. When I don't know something I go into a panic and cannot rest until I get the answer.

And talking conspiracies....  you make sending an email sound tragic. Why is sending emails to people so dire. I usually sent emails full of praise and talk about how inspiring it is.... how bad is that.... I also ask one or two questions.... but I am not committing adultery or threatening people with kidnap.... I am aknowledging there existance. Ha Ha it's really strange to think that people go to such effort to create Blogs and websites and don't expect to get some reaction....                       "Hey, I cannot beleive it.... this guy just sent me an email asking what renderer I prefer. Who does this guy think he is....I refuse to respond.... ha ha.... that will show him."

Like you said.... I think it's better I go on Forums.... like this....