Author Topic: Render Legion and Corona Join Forces with Chaos Group  (Read 87888 times)

2017-08-27, 18:56:06
Reply #150

vlado

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Cautiously .. :), it's not myths. Vray -noise Threshold? Maybe only those two settings you know, the rabbit's horn is deeper than you think ..
peace with you. :)
Maybe it would be best to leave this discussion for another thread :)

Best regards,
Vlado

2017-08-27, 19:05:19
Reply #151

romullus

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Preferably for another forum too :]
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2017-08-27, 19:13:18
Reply #152

duke

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I'm not sure what you guys are talking about here with Corona being more simple than Vray. For the past 3.5 years (since Vray 3.0) I adjust only 2 (two) settings in Vray - Noise Threshold and Render Time and then I press Render. That's it! Since Vray 3.0 there is no more fiddling with light or material subdivs, irradiance maps and other switches and settings. Out of the box it's as simple as Corona.

Unfortunately, people still perpetuate the myth that Vray is more complicated which is understandable maybe because they stopped using it before version 3.0 came out. Of course, if you are a power user, you have the ability to unlock all the pro settings and fine tune it to the maximum like before version 3.0. I challenge anyone to point me out what exactly is complicated with Vray in the recent versions (or even version 3.0 for that matter which is now more than 3 years old).

Cautiously .. :), it's not myths. Vray -noise Threshold? Maybe only those two settings you know, the rabbit's horn is deeper than you think ..
peace with you. :)

Sorry to break it to you but yes, IT IS a myth. :) I know Vray like the fingers on my hands, I've used it for 13 years now and I know every single setting front to back and back to front. Fortunately, since version 3.0 in 99% of my daily use I no longer have to touch anything except Noise Threshold and Render Time. I'm not sure why you don't want to accept the truth. The facts are the facts and they don't change if you say "it's not as you say it". Of course, we have to give credit where credit is due because if it was not for Corona, maybe Chaos wouldn't have changed Vray to be out of the box a simple user friendly render engine.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-27, 19:43:19 by duke »

2017-08-27, 19:18:53
Reply #153

yagi

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What can I say but, WOW! I'm heartbroken. Can I ask that chaos relinquish the agreement if possible and leave our beloved corona alone, if it's not too late? I don't mean to say it but we all know what the competition going on between these two brought about, both developers had to sit up better than ever before especially chaos group as I noticed they emulated some of the things corona brought in innovatively...."competition is healthy" Let's face it. I don't know how much money was involved to cajole the minds of the corona team into agreeing into the contract" just bare in mind u don't need a gun at their heads to force them into signing a contract, a mouth watering amount or opportunity will suffice even better than gun-point would" ...even John snow would bend the knee :( . Yes, it was their free will to do so at their best interest doesn't mean they haven't made a mistake only chaos could clearly see. The only way it would work is if both parties truly mean well for each other and have purest of hearts and intentions that won't get corrupted by greed in the near future, because even the best of friends fight and back stab each other in this wicked world as we know it, it's just common in Buisness! I've paid good money for corona, invested in, prayed for, and appreciated the developers thus so far so having to witness this day has hurt me just as much as my wife cheating on me! Then later she tells me I did it for our future n the kids? Like seriously, there has to be a phenomenal and strategic reason for sleeping with your competitor or enemy. I will have to think this through and either wait for the end of corona soon n move to something new or just have faith that everything is going to be alright cos I just can't go back to vray or mental ray. So pls, chaos, make my corona greater than ever and keep each others promises so I won't hate you both and regret this unbelievable union. Cheers
Btw: I'm not married :I

2017-08-27, 19:23:52
Reply #154

Ondra

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I finally returned from D2, caught some sleep, and read the entire topic. Thanks to vlado for responding to a lot of concerns. I will respond to some more posts I picked where I have something to add - most fears were already touched upon in our announcement and by people here. It all comes down down to single thing: some users not trusting us. And I mean trusting me and rest of Corona team, not Chaosgroup, as this was not a hostile takeover, and we even initiated the deal. It is pretty clear that nothing we say will convince some people, so I am asking you:

Come check with us in 6 months, or a year, and see what the situation is then. Hopefully you will be convinced by then. I understand that you have seen some bad things happen to other companies, but there was not a single instance of Chaosgroup killing off a competitor. This is like refusing to ever date and get married, because 2 of your friends got divorces...

The implication was made on the blog that users of corona and vray aren't the same, so the render engines are flexible(vray) and simple to use(corona)

Does this mean, that in the future a request of a feature (existing in vray) might come from corona users, and corona devs would simply say: well, there's vray for that..? Since, you might not want to compete...?

Yes, this will happen, but it has been happening already. We were rejecting feature requests because of extremely low value to work/complications ratio, but because they just flat out contradicted the corona philosophy (for example: support for obscure little-known VFX plugins, support for fakes such as disabling backside reflection, specular reflections instead of full GI glossy reflection, fake AO rendering modes, ...). But still we were forced to make Corona closer to VRay that we would have wanted, and it already shown negatively with some people leaving Corona because it became "too complex" for them. Now it will be easier for us to realize our vision of high-quality, fast, zero-hassle renderer without having to think of bottom line (keeping up with VRay in every aspect). Do you need a very special legacy feature for 1 in 10 projects? Switch to VRay for it! You assets will work out of the box with no converters, and your subscription will give you license.

Note that this does not actually mean "archviz only" or "no VFX allowed" - our vision is actually to make these markets as hassle-free as we made archviz ;)

cut the sunny salesmen talk

We tried that for the D2 announcement, and some called it "wildly unproffesional" ;)

Already one presence of DMC sampler adds in render settings at least 5 new positions and switches/////////////

If there is a new tab in 1.6.2 or latest daily, please report it on mantis as a bug, because new switches for DMC are not necessary and we did not add them ;)

The only thing I don´t like is the way, how RL /Vlado encircle the price tag question. It is affronting their customers intelligence. By overemphasising, corona will be continued, they spare out the 2nd common question.  "We have decided not to disclose transaction details.Let’s not make it all about the money.
Do you mean the price of product or price of acquisition? The first one was already answered - it will not change. The second one does not influence the customers in any way, so we have decided to not publish it.


It might be okay if RL thinks it is indispensable these days, but hey, we all know at the end it is all about the money
If we were really after money, both I and vlado would be working for google or facebook, making more people click on ads. Rendering is not really lucrative business; render farms make probably more money on Corona than we do. We enjoy doing what we do, and that is why we survived in this business - over the years we have seen other renderers trying to do the cash grab that came and went. Corona wouldnt be successful if i was not willing to invest my last student money into it to keep it free as long as possible. It was not about the money back then, and it is not now ;).

Anyone in business knows what this leads to. This is the end of corona, might take years but development will stop and eventually be phased out. Look at the Macintosh and the Lisa products from Apple....cant have two competing products that do the same thing from the same company thats to much $$$ R&D costs. Vray is the flagship from Chaos, so it will always win.

Actually, if this was about money, then it would make perfect sense to kill off V-Ray now, as its development team is 10 times bigger, and hence costs 10 times more money, and keep only Corona, which most people here would agree is "better" ;)

Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2017-08-27, 19:36:26
Reply #155

mugambi

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Somehow we have to accept and move on. My speculation is that there is more than meets the eye that we don’t know, RL made the first move.
So much in life happens, and in such situations you better make peace and leave your baby to the most suitable parents of who has the knowledge and capacity for growth for your baby.

2017-08-27, 19:46:01
Reply #156

JoachimArt

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I feel like thanking Vlad, and now Ondra too, for being so patient and answered the same questions and panic attacks over and over in a peaceful matter. Corona for me is the best thing that has ever happened to rendering and I now feel quite confident it will continue to stay that way. Cheers :)

2017-08-27, 20:06:26
Reply #157

A515

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Sorry to break it to you but yes, IT IS a myth. :) I know Vray like the fingers on my hands, I've used it for 13 years now and I know every single setting front to back and back to front. Fortunately, since version 3.0 in 99% of my daily use I no longer have to touch anything except Noise Threshold and Render Time. I'm not sure why you don't want to accept the truth. The facts are the facts and they don't change if you say "it's not as you say it". Of course, we have to give credit where credit is due because if it was not for Corona, maybe Chaos wouldn't have changed Vray to be out of the box a simple user friendly render engine.

He respected very much :) but he does not impress me .. cautiously :).off top.
In the evening I try to write more and some of my "BUT"

Vlado - thanks for coming here.

Regards
dog.

2017-08-27, 20:20:24
Reply #158

Fritzlachatte

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@ Ondra
Quote
    It might be okay if RL thinks it is indispensable these days, but hey, we all know at the end it is all about the money

If we were really after money, both I and vlado would be working for google or facebook, making more people click on ads. Rendering is not really lucrative business; render farms make probably more money on Corona than we do. We enjoy doing what we do, and that is why we survived in this business - over the years we have seen other renderers trying to do the cash grab that came and went. Corona wouldnt be successful if i was not willing to invest my last student money into it to keep it free as long as possible. It was not about the money back then, and it is not now ;).

Then I am sorry, that you got me wrong. When I wrote, it is all about the money, it means,( as it was a little circumscribed in my prior text), that you just want to survive in your business, as it is everywhere. Not to become rich and grease.
I am no CG-artist, and sorry for beeing more an interested amateur with another background. But in my and every other business it would be 1:1 the same.
To your former question: 
Quote
Do you mean the price of product or price of acquisition?
Of course I meant the 1st one, the 2nd doesn´t have to interest me.
I just have seen too late, that this question was later commented under your blog post, sorry. But thanks for taking your time for answering. I generally didn´t want to make my post look harsh in any kind ...

2017-08-27, 20:31:08
Reply #159

Ondra

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oh, then the answer in our blog post is purely on the second question, not the first one.
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2017-08-27, 20:32:00
Reply #160

Rhodesy

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Vlado has been very patient in the face of a lot of hostile vray bashing which is unjustified and also misleading with the more recent vray versions. Got to admire him for that. I too was quite shocked and initially disappointed yesterday but the more I think about it the more of the positives I'm seeing. The fact that both Vlado and Ondra are sticking their necks on the line and reassuring us personally does fill me with more confidence too.

My thoughts are just how is this going to effect vray. What features is vray going to take over from corona as it already has everything? The key differences between the two are simplicity but more than that now (as that gap closes with each vray release) is coronas out of the box ultra realistic light sampling. Is vray going to take that on to refresh its older lighting calcs?

Like I mentioned in an earlier post I would love a universal material editor across host apps and even now across both corona and vray and even share vray scene file code. That would make asset creation and purchasing amazing. Just being able to get a universal format that works out of the box. please make this feature happen!

2017-08-27, 20:53:02
Reply #161

melviso

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 I think Ondra has every right to do what he wants. It is his renderer afterall. People's reaction is proof of how people have come to love the renderer and its community. Myself included. So it's only normal for people to want to protect or defend something they love. Give it time, people will come round. About the deal between Ondra and Vray devs, 5 years from now will give us answers. A lot will happen between that time frame so perhaps, the best line of action is to wait and see.

2017-08-27, 20:57:23
Reply #162

Fritzlachatte

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Adam:
Quote
What with the pricing and licensing policy? Will be some serious changes? We’d like to stay at normal price as usual.

Tom Grimes:
Quote
Pricing will stay the same.


This is what I meant with "answered/commented".
Shouldn´t be confound with acquisition in terms of "buy-out", but maybe I´m slow on the uptake and don´t get the clue. But my question either way was answered.

2017-08-27, 21:29:44
Reply #163

Benny

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I don't think that will be the case. Corona's code and architecture is quite modern and will carry it forward for a long time.

Quote
Vray is the flagship from Chaos, so it will always win.
Maybe it will be around, but the truth is that V-Ray is getting old. I don't know if you've seen Cars 3, it's a very nice movie and somewhat relevant to the discussion :)

Hmm, I actually feel you somehow spilled the beans here but few seems to have noticed.  :)

2017-08-27, 22:08:47
Reply #164

vicmds

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I'm happy for the team! It is a business after all. If we all think of ourselves - as individuals - as small businesses, we'll understand it's all about balancing honest work with profitability (which can absolutely be honest on its own). The same applies for proper companies. Until now, these fine people gave us no reason to doubt them.

Of course I'm somewhat concerned about Corona losing its affordability in the long term. I believe I'm in a more peculiar category of users here, since 3D visualization is not my main activity. But because of how affordable and straight forward this renderer is, and having had experience with other Autodesk software, it was quite easy to integrate 3ds Max into my daily workflow.

It seems Corona opened many doors for this new type of user. Now I can use it for product design, graphic design, proper engineering or Archviz - both for final visualizations and project development - without going bankrupt. And achieving excellent quality. With internal use, this quality is now expected from me every day.

I hope the team keeps noticing us, as I strongly believe there are users on very different parts of the spectrum!

Congratulations and regards!