washed out cosmos assets

[aldola]

some cosmos assets are looking strange, like wasjed out

[TomG]

Please say which version of Max, which version of Corona, and which assets (you can post their name). Looks like a known issue where the IOR is too high, making them shiny, temporarily you can manually reduce the IOR after import.

(Internal ID=902432258)

[cgbeast]

I noticed that too...some come in super shiny.

[Cheesemsmsm]

Please say which version of Max, which version of Corona, and which assets (you can post their name). Looks like a known issue where the IOR is too high, making them shiny, temporarily you can manually reduce the IOR after import.

(Internal ID=902432258)

Most of Cosmos's people assets; IOR Incorrect, Skin too dark and redish.
Check them out

[dj_buckley]

Aren't a lot of these problems the same as assets bought/downloaded from anywhere else?

They're not necessarily setup correctly for your individual workflow.  Everyone has different workflows right, the model creators will make the assets to suit their own workflow.  If the two don't align then there will be issues no doubt.

9 times out 10, assets need tweaking.

I notice it more and more these days (not necessarily in this thread), but people expecting minimum input for maximum output.  I get that time is money and all that, but sometimes you actually need to do a bit of work yourselves.

Most of the adjustments are simple tweaks too, but it's too easy to blame the creators rather than do the simple fix yourself.

[TomG]

Please say which version of Max, which version of Corona, and which assets (you can post their name). Looks like a known issue where the IOR is too high, making them shiny, temporarily you can manually reduce the IOR after import.

(Internal ID=902432258)

Most of Cosmos's people assets; IOR Incorrect, Skin too dark and redish.
Check them out

As noted in my post that you quoted ;) "Please say which version of Max, which version of Corona, and which assets (you can post their name)" - it would also be good to see some screenshots showing what you mean, in particular along with info on lighting and tone mapping in case either of those are playing a part. Thanks!

[Stefan-L]

i think this comes as v-ray has a reflection intensity(reflection color) feature beside the ior setting,
which corona hasn't anymore in its new physical material.

the same asset in vray looks ok, there one sees an IOR around 1,5 like it had been usual for long times, but they usually have a dark greyscale reflection color which dims the reflection intensity.
the same assets comes in in corona with same ior, but white reflection.

[Cheesemsmsm]

Aren't a lot of these problems the same as assets bought/downloaded from anywhere else?

They're not necessarily setup correctly for your individual workflow.  Everyone has different workflows right, the model creators will make the assets to suit their own workflow.  If the two don't align then there will be issues no doubt.

9 times out 10, assets need tweaking.

I notice it more and more these days (not necessarily in this thread), but people expecting minimum input for maximum output.  I get that time is money and all that, but sometimes you actually need to do a bit of work yourselves.

Most of the adjustments are simple tweaks too, but it's too easy to blame the creators rather than do the simple fix yourself.

I personally don't use Cosmos because most of them suck.

The point is that Cosmos promotes itself as "high-quality models, materials and HDRI skies that work perfectly with your visualization projects."
So it should be ready to use, shouldn't it?
and the most important thing is it's made by the renderer's company not random download from the internet. It should work perfectly with their renderer, shouldn't it?

If they're simple tweaks, why don't they do it and make it ready to use as advertised rather than blame the users and let them do the fix themself?

[dj_buckley]

Because of different workflows between users.  Let's say I'm following a strict PBR workflow, and you're not.  Who's scene will they work perfectly in?  Because one of us will have to tweak them?  My workflow would require all albedo textures to be within a certain sRGB range, whereas values as low as 0,0,0 and 255,255,255 might be acceptable for your workflow?  Who's workflow should the creator prepare the models for?  And that's just highlighting 2 different workflows, I'm sure there are many other factors at play.  I might prefer to use Physical Shaders, you might prefer to use Legacy shaders?  Who knows

[James Vella]

Because of different workflows between users.  Let's say I'm following a strict PBR workflow, and you're not.  Who's scene will they work perfectly in?  Because one of us will have to tweak them?  My workflow would require all albedo textures to be within a certain sRGB range, whereas values as low as 0,0,0 and 255,255,255 might be acceptable for your workflow?  Who's workflow should the creator prepare the models for?  And that's just highlighting 2 different workflows, I'm sure there are many other factors at play.  I might prefer to use Physical Shaders, you might prefer to use Legacy shaders?  Who knows

I dont think this is a very good example to be honest. If the assets work well in Vray it should work in Corona. If they are setup for PBR or Legacy it doesn't matter - there should be parity. It is time consuming sure, but its not difficult. I think this is the point here, the items in cosmos should import in correct from the get-go, if you want to adjust things to fit your particular workflow or 'standard' srgb ranges then that's up to you at that point, but the base asset should be plug and play.

[Cheesemsmsm]

Because of different workflows between users.  Let's say I'm following a strict PBR workflow, and you're not.  Who's scene will they work perfectly in?  Because one of us will have to tweak them?  My workflow would require all albedo textures to be within a certain sRGB range, whereas values as low as 0,0,0 and 255,255,255 might be acceptable for your workflow?  Who's workflow should the creator prepare the models for?  And that's just highlighting 2 different workflows, I'm sure there are many other factors at play.  I might prefer to use Physical Shaders, you might prefer to use Legacy shaders?  Who knows

I think you missed the point dude.

Are you trying to say because we have many workflows, then the assets shouldn't be correct on any workflow even on the PBR workflow?

PBR is Corona's standard, almost everyone uses it, so make it correctly on PBR.
If anyone uses Alien workflows, let them fix themself because they're not the standard.

I dont think this is a very good example to be honest. If the assets work well in Vray it should work in Corona. If they are setup for PBR or Legacy it doesn't matter - there should be parity. It is time consuming sure, but its not difficult. I think this is the point here, the items in cosmos should import in correct from the get-go, if you want to adjust things to fit your particular workflow or 'standard' srgb ranges then that's up to you at that point, but the base asset should be plug and play.

Totally agreed with James. Your explanation is way better.
I believe everyone uses the Cosmos because they'd like to save time. Imagine that if they have to fix iOR / albedo / Roughness on 80 of 100 assets, It's pain.
The concept of Cosmos is drag and drop and it works perfectly. So make it be, that's it.

[dj_buckley]

Nope, I'm saying the assets will (should) be correct to one specific workflow and only one..  Whether or not that's the same workflow that you use, is completely hit or miss.  My original point was merely stating that downloaded assets are never a one size fits all.

I also stated in my original post that i wasn't necessarily referring to Cosmos assets (this thread).  It was just a view of downloaded assets in general

[PROH]

But the problem isn't only regarding materials. A lot of the 3d people are coming in with broken meshes, even though the same models from the source vendor are fine.
Chaos Cosmos assets clearly need some love :)

[dj_buckley]

Sure PROH, that's a big issue.  But I've simply been replying to the original comments about materials/shaders.

FWIW, I don't use Cosmos (or haven't yet), but if all of the assets are being provided by different vendors then that further consolidates my point if anything.

Do we even know if Chaos are poviding a standard that vendors should be working too, before assets are added to Cosmos?

[James Vella]

Sure PROH, that's a big issue.  But I've simply been replying to the original comments about materials/shaders.

FWIW, I don't use Cosmos (or haven't yet), but if all of the assets are being provided by different vendors then that further consolidates my point if anything.

Well the point here is that its Chaos Cosmos, the assets provided should work well in Chaos products (Vray/Corona, etc). Even if different vendors are providing the assets they should be vetted through Chaos to be compatible with their render engines and as close to parity as possible.

[PROH]

I agree. This is a Chaos service that should be tailored for their products.

[dj_buckley]

I agree too, they should be.  I just don't like to assume that they are, that way, I don't get frustrated when they aren't haha.

I wasn't even intending to start a debate.  I was just passing a general observation of the wider 3d world, that people have become very reliant on things being done for them without the need for any input by themselves, and if that's not the case then they have a moan about it when they could have fixed it themselves in less time.

Sure, if the asset is simply broken, mesh or shader or whatever, then that needs addressing by the supplier.

[James Vella]

I agree too, they should be.  I just don't like to assume that they are, that way, I don't get frustrated when they aren't haha.

I wasn't even intending to start a debate.  I was just passing a general observation of the wider 3d world, that people have become very reliant on things being done for them without the need for any input by themselves, and if that's not the case then they have a moan about it when they could have fixed it themselves in less time.

Sure, if the asset is simply broken, mesh or shader or whatever, then that needs addressing by the supplier.

Not having a go at you mate, I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your input. I don't post much but I do read most of the content here.

In this case its important however that when paying for a service you get your moneys worth. We all have to tweak assets that we download, some vendors are 'good enough' straight out of the box and that's what we expect from Chaos. There is fairly common standards these days so like I said previously, time consuming but not difficult to get a base line output that's acceptable without any input unless requested internally or through a client.

For example I have used Siger materials for years and they look fantastic and in parity between Vray and Corona, so I usually default to them since I know they will work. My hunch is that the author put a lot of time and effort into making sure they do, that's all we expect when time and money is on the line, in my opinion.

[dj_buckley]

Sure thing, It's my own fault for massively generalising about a much broader subject whilst piggybacking on a very specific thread :)

[Cheesemsmsm]

As noted in my post that you quoted ;) "Please say which version of Max, which version of Corona, and which assets (you can post their name)" - it would also be good to see some screenshots showing what you mean, in particular along with info on lighting and tone mapping in case either of those are playing a part. Thanks!

as I said, I don't use the Cosmos, just tested them after I saw this thread. Random picked 10 people, and 8 of them are incorrect. I just posted here to confirm that they look wrong. I can't tell you all of their names because It may use the whole day or a couple of days to list their names. (I can do it but you have to hire me :P)

If I were you, I will let someone in the team dig into them, set up the scene, and test "ALL" the assets  (especially the People asset) one by one to see if they're wrong and fix them.

You guys are much more clever than me. Perhaps you have a better solution.

I attached some random picks. I didn't try to pick only the bad ones. Completely random. What do you think?
(tested on max 2021 + Corona 8 latest hotfix)

[TomG]

Hi all! We most definitely do test all the assets, but of course the testing isn't an overnight or instant process. Corona and V-Ray handle and import IOR a little differently, and we've been working on ensuring those imports work equally well in Corona and give comparable results as when imported to V-Ray. It's an ongoing process though, both the testing of assets and the adjusting of the import.

As part of this, we'll be hiding some Cosmos assets from the Corona Cosmos browser next week, ones that are still not importing to Corona as well as we'd like. That way we keep the visible assets to the ones that are working well, to save annoyance of importing something and finding it needs manual adjustment (the same process has been done before, there was an earlier thread from a month or so ago about some items visible in V-Ray Cosmos that were not visible in Corona Cosmos, which was part of this same ongoing process).

Which is all to say - we are aware, we are working on it, and don't panic if some things "disappear" or show up for one engine but not the other for a while. And of course we do welcome reports of specific models or materials that don't seem to be working correctly for you, that can also help guide us to further fixes and improvements. Thanks!

[KalinaManeva]

Hi all,
We are currently looking into the problems with Cosmos assets reported by you and we hope to have a solution soon. In the meanwhile, we might hide some of the problematic assets until the problem is properly fixed on our side.

Our (Cosmos) team checks that all assets cover pre-established standards for geometry and materials. However, we made an omission when testing the imports of some models Corona, and we are at work to investigate and fix them.

Sorry for the inconvenience. And thanks for pointing our attention to the those issues.

Best Regards,
Kalina
Product Manager, Chaos Cosmos

[Phasma]

Just to add my two cents here:

this is the reason we are trying to set a lighting standard. There are technical standards like PBR for materials, but for lighting there is none although it is the most important thing in a 3D scene. I saw a lot of people eyeballing the lighting settings until it looked good while also tweaking materials all the time. You'll get there eventually but it takes a lot of time always. In the next scene those precious adjusted assets start to break again.

I've seen hundreds of artists doing this kind of work all the time and it is frustrating of course. And common lighting assets - HDRI's for example do not make it better. they are not as bright, contrast is off, they lack dynamic range etc.  This stuff continues with 3D candles that are sa bright as little suns and way too cool in terms of color. So how on earth should people approch this issue? The average artist just wants to pick an environment and some real lights like indoor ceiling lamps and set up the camera like a photographer or like someone with a smartphone.

I will not really talk about our upcoming product here - If you are interested - just hop on stableworks.tech and find out for yourself. What I want to adress here is, that All these assets - even the ones made with the best efforts will look crap in a lot of scenes because the scenes lighting is just off. people use the same camera settings for day and night shots and play around with the lighting based on what they see in real life with there eyes - of course the assets break. If we would all follow a common realistic lighting standard - AND the assets would have been made for it also - things would look completely different.

How do I know? Because I developed this system for the last 7 years and some companies are currently adapting it and they are successful with it. It has other benefits as well but one of the good things is, that this whole asset issue is gone!