Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for Cinema 4D => [C4D] General Discussion => Topic started by: handz on 2022-10-17, 12:02:51
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I jsut got an email, out of nowhere, 1 day before my billing date about the price of my subscription went from EUR 24 To EUR 59 - this is really crazy, I do not need premium I do not need extra licenses, I am occasional user who was already spending 24 EUR a month on something I am using just from time to time but more than doubling the price is really not cool, especially in current economy and situation. I knew that Corona being bought by Chaos is a bad thing, but I didn't await something so crazy. This will just make all the hobby / occasional users end their subscriptions. What was the point really?
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While there is more information to come soon, your next renewal is at the current/old pricing. You will have time before any new pricing is charged to review, once all information is out.
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Yes, there definitely needs clarifcation on the solo vs premium - especially regards the license mechanism. - e.g still the Chaos licensing server? I have this set up so that I can easily switch between my Mac for lookdev and scene building and then release it to my threadripper for final rendering. Absolutely esssential right now whilst trying to keep costs down in the energy mess.
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Yes, the emails were sent in wrong order, we are putting the proper info on the website. You will be able to switch to to yearly pricing to more or less keep the current price
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Just cut the markting blahblah. It's either crippling existing license use (no floating license anymore) or a hefty price increase.
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You will be able to switch to to yearly pricing to more or less keep the current price
"More or less" How did you arrive at that one Ondra?
You're forcing me to switch to yearly subscription to pay 40% extra per month to avoid a 280% price increase.
But I could downgrade to solo - good one!
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I really don't need the 3dmax plugin, but I need a floating licence for my 2 macs, so now i'm forced to premium?
This is really bad, the reasonable pricing was number1 argument for me using corona as a hobbyist.
Even Maxons Redshift would be much cheaper now.
Chaos really stands up for its name, thx for nothing.
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Got to echo what other are saying here... I don't need a 3DS license and the other add-ons (Phoenix, Player, Scans) don't bring much value to C4D users. Most of the studios I work with are using Redshift and the floating licensing and grandfathered in render nodes were the only thing keeping me going with Corona for projects I can choose my renderer. I've been an advocate for Corona, but it may be time to say goodbye and move onto Redshift for all my projects.
Thanks Chaos!
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" move onto Redshift for all my projects."
best try it before switching. needs totally other hardware, and not good for all things.
some like it, some others have quite some issues with it, as in my testing sadly (specially if scenes or textures are bigger etc like archviz)
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Yes there's a reason I own both RS and Corona.
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Well I haven't thought that my first post would be on a topic like this...
Getting an E-mail out of the blue with the information that the price is going to be more than twice as it was is not very customer orientated - this is definitely a huge problem for small businesses. 3DS Max finally changed their pricing policy to a more indie friendly version and it was a huge step for a one-man-show business. Now you are telling me, within some days, that you're going to be pricier than 3DS Max, even when I'm choosing the annual subscription? Since I have no revenue of over 100.000€ per year, I do not have any chance to plan my outgoings in advance that way, especially in times where nearly everything is going to be more expensive. I could understand when you make a price change due to the actual crises but this one is heavy... Imaging your tax consultant, your electricity provider or your lessor would do such a step, I bet you wouldn't be happy about it and your only way is to make a shift to another provider or whatever - but since Corona is under the hood of the Chaos Group, the shift isn't that easy.
I paid 24,99€ monthly with 3 nodes - seemed to me pretty fair since I'm going to need 3 nodes. Going up to 29,99€ or whatever would be a reasonable price correction for me as a customer.
Now I'm going to pay 26,90€ monthly (yearly subscription) or 48,90€ monthly with 0 nodes - correct me if I'm wrong - so you are raising the price and taking features away.
Or I'm going to pay 35,90€ monthly (yearly subscription) or 59,90€ monthly to have the same package as I have now.
The transformation to Chaos is now completed - well done.
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The timing of this, Chaos, you have to agree is terrible. Or perhaps you are completely unaware of the cost of living crisis that we are in?
Or maybe you don't care about the single man company/freelancers that a lot us are? Or don't realise what our setups are?
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Those seeing a price that is "doubling" (and it's not just a price change, it's more a change as to what a Corona is, due to the extra functionality included) are those who are paying the same price we set in 2015 at launch. We were able to maintain that for the release of 8, letting everyone stay on that 7 year old price, but we had to re-evaluate the price based on the challenges faced by businesses in the current economic climate. Had we increased prices a couple of times over that 7 years, it would not seem so large a change but we kept that original pricing for a long time without any incremental steps. Also, switching to annual means the price change is then nowhere near a "doubling" (and if you have been with us long enough to have the old pricing and render nodes, annual makes sense anyway as you know that Corona is something you are using longer term).
And on the next question, we are aware because the same thing affects all our employees and us as a business; as noted the pricing was based on the challenges faced in the current economy.
Hope this helps clarify the situation some!
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er.. Can I just confirm something here: I currently have Corona single license (lets call it solo) and 3 render nodes. Am I correct in thinking that when it renews in 100 days I can still have Solo and 3 render nodes?
This is critical for me as I don't want 'Premium' (way too expensive) but I can't do without render nodes (way too slow).
If I'm going to lose my nodes then I may as well jump bak to redshift and a super fast GPU. Much as I absolutely love Corona and have been banging on at people about how good it is for years, there's a limit to how much I can afford these days. I'm just a lowly freelancer.
Alternatively, perhaps now is the time to start learning Blender and how to render in Unreal 5 and/or cycles for free.??? Not quite as good as Cinema but when you add up all those costs and add in Adobe too, a few features is not much to save a small fortune.
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Those seeing a price that is "doubling" (and it's not just a price change, it's more a change as to what a Corona is, due to the extra functionality included)
You do not need to use quotation marks around the word doubling. And exactly that extra functionality you mention is part of the problem. It is hard to follow this dogmatic reasoning (for me personally, absolutely impossible).
1. It feels you are going to force users to use that extra functionality to bind more people to chaos products/services generally. It has nothing to do with Corona as a renderer with the exception that Corona supports them.
2. Basically you clipped render nodes and replaced them by services and extra stuff most people may rarely or even never will need or use. Users have been deciding to use Corona not for what you enforce Corona has to be, but because of what Corona has been in the past. This is the most disappointing attitude of all.
3. To obtain the same coverage as FairSaaS with the new options: 26.90/m + 3x29.70/m=56.6/m. And this is not even accurate because it would be a fixed license (which is a no-go nowadays for many, and the change of the licensing system is already pain enough). It is in fact more than doubling. What I really miss is a plan equal to FairSaaS without ballyhoo: Corona vanilla as a floating license + 3 render nodes for the same fee as the "premium" option.
Good Luck
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er.. Can I just confirm something here: I currently have Corona single license (lets call it solo) and 3 render nodes. Am I correct in thinking that when it renews in 100 days I can still have Solo and 3 render nodes?
The current license can't be called "solo" as such a thing didn't exist :) If you have what used to be a FairSaaS license, the only way to keep the 3 render nodes included in the price which we maintained for Corona 8 is to keep your Premium subscription active.
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Sorry Tom, just to be perfectly clear. If I renew premium at £358 per year, I get to keep exactly what I have now, ie 3 nodes... ??
i.e. I don't have to pay per node like they do over in Redshift country!
Thanks
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Sorry Tom, just to be perfectly clear. If I renew premium at £358 per year, I get to keep exactly what I have now, ie 3 nodes... ??
i.e. I don't have to pay per node like they do over in Redshift country!
Thanks
Right! If you have the 3 nodes carried over from the FairSaaS days, you will keep those without any additional charge, so long as your Premium is renewed without interruption. New users will have to purchase those Render Nodes separately, but our long term users get to keep them (so long as the subscription continues unbroken through 8, and now Premium remains unbroken onward).
As a note, if you are currently on a Monthly Premium subscription and would like to swap to Annual Premium for the greater economy of the pricing AND still keep your FairSaaS render nodes included in that Annual Premium price, please contact our support team through https://support.chaos.com/requests/new (https://support.chaos.com/requests/new) and we can make that happen. This is just to ensure those additional render nodes don't get "lost" if you change from Monthly Premium to Annual Premium yourself.
Hope that helps!
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Sorry Tom, just to be perfectly clear. If I renew premium at £358 per year, I get to keep exactly what I have now, ie 3 nodes... ??
i.e. I don't have to pay per node like they do over in Redshift country!
Thanks
Right! If you have the 3 nodes carried over from the FairSaaS days, you will keep those without any additional charge, so long as your Premium is renewed without interruption. New users will have to purchase those Render Nodes separately, but our long term users get to keep them (so long as the subscription continues unbroken through 8, and now Premium remains unbroken onward).
As a note, if you are currently on a Monthly Premium subscription and would like to swap to Annual Premium for the greater economy of the pricing AND still keep your FairSaaS render nodes included in that Annual Premium price, please contact our support team through https://support.chaos.com/requests/new (https://support.chaos.com/requests/new) and we can make that happen. This is just to ensure those additional render nodes don't get "lost" if you change from Monthly Premium to Annual Premium yourself.
Hope that helps!
Hi Tom, I'm wondering something : if the Corona Solo tier is now a node-locked license, does it mean that we don't have to install the Chaos License Server and can use the software offline ? What happens if I do a hardware upgrade and change the motherboard ?
Thanks !
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Sorry, that question is best sent in to the support folks via ticket at https://support.chaos.com/requests/new - just because they are more into the technical behind-the-scenes ins and outs of it than I am :) They'll get you all the answers you need. I can answer the higher level stuff though!
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Right! If you have the 3 nodes carried over from the FairSaaS days, you will keep those without any additional charge, so long as your Premium is renewed without interruption. New users will have to purchase those Render Nodes separately, but our long term users get to keep them (so long as the subscription continues unbroken through 8, and now Premium remains unbroken onward).
As a note, if you are currently on a Monthly Premium subscription and would like to swap to Annual Premium for the greater economy of the pricing AND still keep your FairSaaS render nodes included in that Annual Premium price, please contact our support team through https://support.chaos.com/requests/new (https://support.chaos.com/requests/new) and we can make that happen. This is just to ensure those additional render nodes don't get "lost" if you change from Monthly Premium to Annual Premium yourself.
Hope that helps!
Perfecto! Thanks Tom. I'm too old to be learning new software. I will happily stick to Corona :-)
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Those seeing a price that is "doubling" (and it's not just a price change, it's more a change as to what a Corona is, due to the extra functionality included) are those who are paying the same price we set in 2015 at launch. We were able to maintain that for the release of 8, letting everyone stay on that 7 year old price, but we had to re-evaluate the price based on the challenges faced by businesses in the current economic climate. Had we increased prices a couple of times over that 7 years, it would not seem so large a change but we kept that original pricing for a long time without any incremental steps. Also, switching to annual means the price change is then nowhere near a "doubling" (and if you have been with us long enough to have the old pricing and render nodes, annual makes sense anyway as you know that Corona is something you are using longer term).
And on the next question, we are aware because the same thing affects all our employees and us as a business; as noted the pricing was based on the challenges faced in the current economy.
Hope this helps clarify the situation some!
so if I just stay on the latest working version for cinema4d R16 it will be cheaper? The price difference between monthly and yearly is 85%...wtf....Excuse my French but wtf? We will most likely finish this story
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Sorry, that question is best sent in to the support folks via ticket at https://support.chaos.com/requests/new - just because they are more into the technical behind-the-scenes ins and outs of it than I am :) They'll get you all the answers you need. I can answer the higher level stuff though!
Done, I put the answers here if it can avoid cluttering the support :
- Does the node-locked license mean Corona can run fully offline, without the Chaos Licence server in background ?
You will still have to install the Chaos license server. You can use your Corona licenses offline even now so that has not changed.
- What happens if I do a hardware upgrade and change the motherboard ?
We will probably devise a way to allow you to change hardware with the Solo license.
So I'm a bit confused, what is the point of the node-locked license if it uses online licensing and that I have to run the license server ? I don't see the point, can you explain the technical reasons that led to this difference between Solo and Premium ?
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Yes that is a bit confusing - and my response from support made similar sense. I've just uninstalled my separate license server on my little network and installed it locally on my workstations instead as it seemed to blow minds that I would have set it up that way. Also, it seems the only way to be able to offline a license for a temporary period.
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so if I just stay on the latest working version for cinema4d R16 it will be cheaper? The price difference between monthly and yearly is 85%...wtf....Excuse my French but wtf? We will most likely finish this story
I am not sure what you mean here. There is no way to "stay on Corona 8" assuming this is what you mean by "stay on the latest working version" - a Corona subscription gives access to all versions of Corona, from 9 and back earlier, but it's the same subscription.
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Hi guys, I'll do my best to clear any confusion for you.
So I'm a bit confused, what is the point of the node-locked license if it uses online licensing and that I have to run the license server ? I don't see the point, can you explain the technical reasons that led to this difference between Solo and Premium ?
We offer two different subscription plans for Corona: Premium and Solo. There are differences in the offered tools, in the pricing, and in the license usage. Generally, we can say that the Premium plan is for customers who need a pool of licenses that they can move between a number of computers and users (e.g. a studio with multiple artists using both the office machines and their home machines, where each license is not locked to a specific machine or user). A Solo license is registered to a single computer only and this is suitable, for example, for freelancers using only one machine. With both plans, the activation process is the same: start the Chaos License Server, sign in, use Corona. You need to be online so that we can check your license validity. You can borrow a license for offline usage with both Premium and Solo: https://docs.chaos.com/display/LIC5/Borrowing+Licenses+for+Offline+Use
Yes that is a bit confusing - and my response from support made similar sense. I've just uninstalled my separate license server on my little network and installed it locally on my workstations instead as it seemed to blow minds that I would have set it up that way. Also, it seems the only way to be able to offline a license for a temporary period.
"I've just uninstalled my separate license server on my little network and installed it locally on my workstations instead as it seemed to blow minds that I would have set it up that way." - Can you please explain what exactly you meant by this part?
To activate your license, regardless of the subscription type, you need to make sure that your computer is able to access the Chaos License Server (it can be a single Chaos License Server running on the network, or multiple ones - one per each computer).
To use your license offline, you can borrow it with both Premium and Solo: https://docs.chaos.com/display/LIC5/Borrowing+Licenses+for+Offline+Use
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Hey there,
i just got this weird and uninformative email concerning price changes.
"This is to let you know that your subscription pricing has changed.
Product: Corona Renderer for Cinema 4D - FairSaaS - 1 WS + 3 NODES (12 months)
New price: 289.99 EUR
Price for the first month: 418.80 EUR"
New price : 289,99.. for what, no info?
418,80 first month?? huh?
I logged into my account and noticed i am on premium??
Never did i ordered this, so whats the deal here?
mlon
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Soooo, the new price is 289.99 €, and 418,80 € for the first month, eh? (see attached image) Chaos with chaos.
Maybe while upping prices like crazy, try to at least communicate clear and without discrepancies.
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Hey there,
i just got this weird and uninformative email concerning price changes.
"This is to let you know that your subscription pricing has changed.
Product: Corona Renderer for Cinema 4D - FairSaaS - 1 WS + 3 NODES (12 months)
New price: 289.99 EUR
Price for the first month: 418.80 EUR"
New price : 289,99.. for what, no info?
418,80 first month?? huh?
I logged into my account and noticed i am on premium??
Never did i ordered this, so whats the deal here?
mlon
Me too! I think £418.80 is the premium price plus tax. No idea what the 'New Price' is. Probably the old price. It is a rediculous price hike though. I'm currently in the process of researching a new render engine. On top of the Cinema cost it's just not sustainable. I've got until February to find something.... Probably going to end up with Blender and Cycles, even though its not as good as Corona :-(
Sad times in this industry...
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i just got this weird and uninformative email concerning price changes.
Soooo, the new price is 289.99 €, and 418,80 € for the first month, eh? (see attached image) Chaos with chaos.
Maybe while upping prices like crazy, try to at least communicate clear and without discrepancies.
Me too! I think £418.80 is the premium price plus tax. No idea what the 'New Price' is. Probably the old price. It is a rediculous price hike though. I'm currently in the process of researching a new render engine. On top of the Cinema cost it's just not sustainable. I've got until February to find something.... Probably going to end up with Blender and Cycles, even though its not as good as Corona :-(
Sad times in this industry...
Please contact our support at https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
If anything is unclear to you, or if you find the notification emails confusing, the dedicated team will explain everything to you.
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I got the same strange mail too. Do all users have to contact the support hotline now??
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I got the same strange mail too. Do all users have to contact the support hotline now??
The important thing is that you should know what kind of subscription you are using, what is its price, and why there were any price changes. If you do not know that (for any reason - did not receive an email with explanations, or maybe something just isn't clear to you), contacting our support is the best idea as you will be provided with all answers ASAP by the dedicated team.
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Got the mail too, fortunately I've chatted with support so the situation is clear for me but it's really great to have some typos in a subject as sensitive as price change / increase.
So, if you were on FairSaas for few years ( before v8 ) like me, with 1WS+3RN ( one workstation license + 3 render nodes ), you're migrated to the Corona Premium plan. I was already on the annual plan so I don't know if customers with monthly plans are migrated on the monthly or the yearly, since the price difference between both is quite massive now. Also, and if you keep the subscription active without interruption, you keep the 3 render nodes from FairSaaS "at no extra cost". And yes I'm using quotation marks because the new plan is more expensive than the new one - 44,42% exactly, twice the inflation since 2015 -, and if like me you don't need the features included in premium like Scans and Phoenix, it's not a great value.
Come on guys, Phoenix is not even available on Cinema 4D !!! Who came up with these new subscription plans, a random guy in marketing departement with no clues about the software ?
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Sorry but it seems, you haven't read this mail maru.
It is not about the pricing, it is about the content of this mail. The annual pricie for premium is anounced "for the first month". What does this mean? That we have to pay only one month? This is some kinda logic but not as such a text should be written.
But what abour these 289€? Thats not the pricing for the single license, because this is 322€.
This is not professional. This is Chaos!
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I just got an email from Chaos with 'Service Information'.
This clarifies a little bit and should be send before the 'subscription change' email an hour ago.
mlon
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Ivana from the Serviceteam confirmed, that the Informationsin the Mails are wrong.
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We where thinking about going with corona and expanding the license park considerably. But fact is: Any new license got a price increase double the inflation + no render nodes anymore - within half a year. A new license with corona+3 render nodes (for the slowest renderer on earth a must have!), got a price increase from 289.99 € to 775.20 € (corona + 3 render nodes).
Now, in the day-to-day business it's not really about the price increase itself (not from my point of view, at least). It's somehow about professionalism and predictability. Shown practices in 2022 are lacking both key points. And chaos lacks both attributes anyway, as shown in the past (VRay for Modo, f.e.). I really liked corona and the founding companies spirit (FairSaaS in its original idea, f.e.). But now, with chaos showing their typical behaviour I'm really unsure about coronas future.
Long story short: Yes, you should have increased prices over time. By then, you would've known if a yearly price increase around 15% (considering feature theft, see above) would have been realistic. I dare to say no.
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Yes, i agree babumbol.
I didnt expect it to go sour this quickly after Chaos takeover
and i do feel bad for the originators because i felt their great
attitude towards their community and love for the product.
It's now just business as usual and they can't go back.
mlon
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As far as I can see, my FairSaas price was $330 USD per seat. I have two with 3 nodes each. The new price is $478.80 each, an increase of 45.09%. That's quite a jump in one step. In business, being able to predict costs in advance is very important so you can prepare for the changes to come. In most cases, those changes are more gradual. If you are a freelancer, predicting those costs is CRITICAL for survival. I should be fine since I'm part of a larger group, but it's only 60 days notice of such an increase in cost. I assume I will need to explain this when the time comes and justify the extra cost. If this increase was introduced in 10% steps or so, I don't think this discussion would be happening.
We all love Corona and what it can do, but at some point, people will need to find more affordable alternatives that get similar results. And make no mistake, there are other choices if necessary. Many of these offer hybrid CPU/GPU. The discussion about the host application costs is an entirely different topic.
Blender FREE Cycles X/Evee
Octane $198 per year
Redshift $264 per year
Arnold $380 per year
Corona $479 per year
Maxwell $595 perpetual (not sure the details here)
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I didnt expect it to go sour this quickly after Chaos takeover
Reminders, fwiw - it's been 7 years since we merged. It was a merger, not a takeover. Price changes would be happening whether or not the merger had taken place. Just to keep the record straight :)
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I didnt expect it to go sour this quickly after Chaos takeover
Reminders, fwiw - it's been 7 years since we merged. It was a merger, not a takeover. Price changes would be happening whether or not the merger had taken place. Just to keep the record straight :)
Nobody expects the price to stay the same Tom. I guess people are wary of some of the Chaos changes as they can be rather chaotic. The communication wasn't done well and had errors.
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@ BIgAI3D
Redshift is for free for CPU rendering and is developing fast.
@ Coronarender
I saw that Maxtree has recently updated all its assets to Octane & Redshift as well and they have updated all my previously purchased libraries for free. It used to be Vray & Corona only (apart from fbx) and the main reason for me to get into Corona. Would it not be very smart for me to move over to a much, much faster renderengine and pay much less or even nothing at all ?
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No problems with a normal price increase, costs rise each year.
But the node-locked option is very poor, considering most people have a work and home computer. Why can't it be floating but only usable on 1 machine at a time (or limited to 2 computers?)
Seems to be the same on with vray, corona, enscape - so not expecting any change , but not impressed !
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"Redshift is for free for CPU rendering and is developing fast. "
have you tried that?;) (cpu version is extremely slow, at least for now)
that said also not a friend of the node locked version, i think it should run on 2 pcs.(office and home pc)
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Have done a few test with Redshift on a Mac. Seems to be ok. Bit not done any serious work with it.